What's with all the new Bible versions?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Please anyone who would care to look, go to Effective Evangelism and start at page 14, this whole discussion started with Sean correcting another poster "votivesoul" for using what he called a foreign Greek source? This so called foreign Greek source was the Textus Receptus the "received text which our KJV's NTs are translated from. Sean, then went on to attack any sort of modern ancient language scholars and translators, saying that only the KJV translators were worthy enough to translate ancient languages because they were 1500 years closer to the apostles? But, don't take my word for it, go and read it yourselves.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

The early translators fought hard to translate the Bible from Latin, and Greek, some even died doing it. They would flip out if they were alive today to see someone defend the retaining the Bible in 17th century English in a 21st century world.

[randyabrown]

WWTD

What would Tyndale do?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by randyabrown

WWTD

What would Tyndale do?

AMEN!

[Scott Pitta]

How is the best way to translate Isaiah 14:12 ?? This seems to be the fundamental question.

Do we translate it as a name, as in the Vulgate and render it "Lucifer"?? Do we not translate it as a name and as does other translations ?

The other issue is how to interpret what Isaiah wrote. If no one in the NT interpreted Is. 14:12 to refer to the devil, why should we ?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Imagine E-sword, LOGOS, and the WORD Bible programs if they were KJV only?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

How is the best way to translate Isaiah 14:12 ?? This seems to be the fundamental question.

Do we translate it as a name, as in the Vulgate and render it "Lucifer"?? Do we not translate it as a name and as does other translations ?

The other issue is how to interpret what Isaiah wrote. If no one in the NT interpreted Is. 14:12 to refer to the devil, why should we ?

International Bible Encyclopedia

lu'-si-fer, loo'-si-fer: The morning star, an epithet of the planet Venus.

H1966 הֵילֵל heylel (hay-lale') n-m.
1. the morning-star
[from H1984 (in the sense of brightness)]
KJV: lucifer.
Root(s): H1984
[?]

That would be its literal translation light bearing, light bringer, morning star is the traditional translation prior to the Western Catholic Church's Latin Lucifer, which means light bearer, or morning star.

[Scott Pitta]

If the Vulgate was the first to translate it as a name, how does the Hebrew manuscripts and the Greek manuscripts render Is. 14:12 ?? Was Jerome wrong to translate it into a name ?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

LXX translates Isaiah 14:12

πως εξέπεσεν εκ του ουρανού ο εωσφόρος ο πρωϊ ανατέλλων συνετρίβης εις την γην ο αποστέλλων προς πάντα τα έθνη

O how fell from out of the heaven the morning star the one by morning rising; was shattered unto the earth the one sending to all the nations

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes

The Greek word εωσφόρος literally means Ἕως "dawn" and φέρω "to carry", it is associated with the planet Venus as the day star, morning star, first star of a new day. The Latin form (which was used by Jerome, when he translated the LXX Greek OT to Latin) is lux the genitive lucis "light" and fero "carry" which makes up the word lucifer.

Now εωσφόρος is used in the LXX an additional times, but have nothing to do with a devil. But meant dawn bringer, light carrier, or morning star. Did King David fight the Amalekites from the devil until the night? That doesn't make sense if you would use εωσφόρος to be the name of Satan. But the ancient Greeks understood εωσφόρος to mean morning star, or dawn bringer.

1st Samuel 30:17 και ήλθεν επ΄ αυτούς Δαυίδ και επάταξεν αυτούς από εωσφόρου και έως δείλης και της επαύριον και ου διεσώθη εξ αυτών ανήρ ότι αλλ΄ η τετρακόσια παιδάρια α επέβη επί καμήλους και έφυγον


And came upon them David, and he struck them from the morning star and until evening even of the next day. And was not preserved of them a man, but only four hundred boys who mounted upon camels and fled.

Job 11:17 17 η δε ευχή σου ώσπερ εωσφόρος εκ δε μεσημβρίας ανατελεί σοι ζωή

And your vow will be as the morning star; and from midday shall arise to you life.

Latin Vulgate Jerome

et quasi meridianus fulgor consurget tibi ad vesperam et cum te consumptum putaveris orieris ut lucifer

Psalm 110:3 μετά σου η αρχή εν ημέρα της δυνάμεώς σου εν ταις λαμπρότησι των αγίων σου εκ γαστρός προ εωσφόρος εγέννησά σε

Latin Vulgate Clement

Tecum principium in die virtutis tuæ in splendoribus sanctorum : ex utero, ante luciferum, genui te.

Here are all the other translations with Morning Star....Lucifer..Εωσφόρος..Heylel (הֵילֵל)

New International Version
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

New Living Translation
"How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world.

English Standard Version
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

New American Standard Bible
"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

King James Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground.

International Standard Version
"How you have fallen from heaven, Day Star, son of the Dawn! How you have been thrown down to earth, you who laid low the nation!

NET Bible
Look how you have fallen from the sky, O shining one, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, O conqueror of the nations!

GOD'S WORD® Translation
How you have fallen from heaven, you morning star, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the ground, you conqueror of nations!

Jubilee Bible 2000
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, who didst claim the Gentiles as an inheritance!

King James 2000 Bible
How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, who did weaken the nations!

American King James Version
How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!

American Standard Version
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

Douay-Rheims Bible
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

Darby Bible Translation
How art thou fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning! Thou art cut down to the ground, that didst prostrate the nations!

English Revised Version
How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst lay low the nations!

Webster's Bible Translation
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

World English Bible
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!

Young's Literal Translation
How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations.

Gail Riplinger (and this poster Sean) would like to make us believe that all other translation translate Heylel (הֵילֵל) into Morning Star as a conspiracy of New Agers. This isn't the case. The translators were translating all three words the Hebrew, the Greek, and the Latin, and coming up with Morning Star. No conspiracy, no boogie man, no demon hiding under every bush.

Bump for Scott Pitta

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Imagine E-sword, LOGOS, and the WORD Bible programs if they were KJV only?

I usually use BibleGateway and BibleHub and sometimes other websites with different translations and of course also many Spanish translations.

It is a good thing that bibles are now electronic because I read so many different translations, that if I had them all in print, I would have no room to sleep in.