Your tithes were already paid.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

You tell me, based on the Scriptures related to giving to the ministry

then,
What were the wages that Paul received?

If Old Testament tithe or offering had been disposed of, why did Paul use the Law to validate his argument to support the New Testament ministry?

Leviticus 19:13
Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.

Deuteronomy 25:4
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

Jeremiah 22:13
Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness,
and his chambers by wrong;
that useth his neighbour's service without wages,
and giveth him not for his work;

1 Corinthians 9:1-14
Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, Have we not power to eat and to drink? Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of thefruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.



Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Clearly, the apostle is comparing New Testament giving equal of the Old Testament provision for the ministry.



2nd Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.

1 Timothy 5:17,18
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

These are clearly all connected by the apostle.

Thank you for bringing forth the scriptures that bear directly to the subject. I notice Paul did not appeal to any tithe law whatsoever, and never mentioned it, but instead appealed to the laws regarding wages.

So then it seems that Paul was commenting on what Jesus had established, when he said this:

Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
Luk 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Luk 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Luk 10:4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Luk 10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
Luk 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
Luk 10:8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
Luk 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Here Jesus refers to the support the apostles would receive as 'hire' (ie wages). He in fact is referencing the same idea Paul did! Therefore, it seems the apostolic preaching ministry is to be supported by freewill offerings from those who are taught, given to those who teach, based on how valuable the teaching is to the ones being taught. No 'tithing' involved, either as specified under the Law or as developed in the modern ecclesiastical world.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Thank you for bringing forth the scriptures that bear directly to the subject. I notice Paul did not appeal to any tithe law whatsoever, and never mentioned it, but instead appealed to the laws regarding wages.

So then it seems that Paul was commenting on what Jesus had established, when he said this:

Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
Luk 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Luk 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Luk 10:4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Luk 10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
Luk 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
Luk 10:8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
Luk 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Here Jesus refers to the support the apostles would receive as 'hire' (ie wages). He in fact is referencing the same idea Paul did! Therefore, it seems the apostolic preaching ministry is to be supported by freewill offerings from those who are taught, given to those who teach, based on how valuable the teaching is to the ones being taught.


No 'tithing' involved, either as specified under the Law or as developed in the modern ecclesiastical world.

This is a setting for a particular time, and there are good lessons to be learned by these verses.

However, The admonishment from our Lord is nothing that you (or I) practice or have in every literal sense.

Do you go house to house and stay at peoples house like in this instance, without bringing food or provision?

No, you guys have house church, which may be fine, but this is an example of what we as Apostolics have done for years.

Door knocking is a common practice around our place, as well as parking-lots, parks, and various other venues.

In regards to the rest of your claim.
Please see below



1Corinthians 9:13,4
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

1Corinthians 10:18
Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar.


Clearly, the apostle is comparing New Testament giving equal of the Old Testament provision for the ministry.

How dare he use the old testament to prove his point!

Who does he think he is?

Doesn't he know we are under a new covenant?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Please see below



1Corinthians 9:13,4
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

1Corinthians 10:18
Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar.


Clearly, the apostle is comparing New Testament giving equal of the Old Testament provision for the ministry.

How dare he use the old testament to prove his point!

Who does he think he is?

Doesn't he know we are under a new covenant?

I will address all of this but only if you FIRST address my points about the Lord's teaching from Luke, which I posted.

One thing at a time, brother!

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I will address all of this but only if you FIRST address my points about the Lord's teaching from Luke, which I posted.

One thing at a time, brother!

Originally Posted by Esaias

Thank you for bringing forth the scriptures that bear directly to the subject. I notice Paul did not appeal to any tithe law whatsoever, and never mentioned it, but instead appealed to the laws regarding wages.

So then it seems that Paul was commenting on what Jesus had established, when he said this:

Luk 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
Luk 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Luk 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Luk 10:4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Luk 10:5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
Luk 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
Luk 10:8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
Luk 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Here Jesus refers to the support the apostles would receive as 'hire' (ie wages). He in fact is referencing the same idea Paul did! Therefore, it seems the apostolic preaching ministry is to be supported by freewill offerings from those who are taught, given to those who teach, based on how valuable the teaching is to the ones being taught.


No 'tithing' involved, either as specified under the Law or as developed in the modern ecclesiastical world.

This is a setting for a particular time, and there are good lessons to be learned by these verses.

However, The admonishment from our Lord is nothing that you (or I) practice or have in every literal sense.

Do you go house to house and stay at peoples house like in this instance, without bringing food or provision?

No, you guys have house church, which may be fine, but this is an example of what we as Apostolics have done for years.

Door knocking is a common practice around our place, as well as parking-lots, parks, and various other venues.

Good night my brother,

Praying for tons of worldliness in church tomorrow!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

This is a setting for a particular time, and there are good lessons to be learned by these verses.

However, The admonishment from our Lord is nothing that you (or I) practice or have in every literal sense.

Do you go house to house and stay at peoples house like in this instance, without bringing food or provision?

No, you guys have house church, which may be fine, but this is an example of what we as Apostolics have done for years.

Door knocking is a common practice around our place, as well as parking-lots, parks, and various other venues.

Good night my brother,

Praying for tons of worldliness in church tomorrow!

I'd like to see how you determine this passage in Luke is only for a certain time and place, and not for us today. Could not the same thing be said about the Law concerning tithes? (BTW, I still have not seen anyone demonstrate that the modern compulsory ten percent of gross income per pay-day is what the Law even taught, but...)

I hope you had tons of worldliness in church this weekend, and I hope they were blessed by the Spirit and the Word.