Universal Salvation

[Barb]

Originally Posted by crakjak

What sane individual would knowingly make that choice? Please, post any scripture that says man has freewill.

Rather the scripture says, (Romans 9.16) "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

Precisely...what sane individual would choose hellfire over eternity in glory?!

Yet, man makes this choice every day when they willingly and willfully sin.

If we didn't have a choice in the matter, it wouldn't make sense...we would be nothing more than puppets, living any way we desired because it didn't matter...we'd make it in anyway.

Well, listen to the Word...

"Depart from me, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41).

"For the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23).

"This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14, 15).

This is from Truth Shall Triumph...

"Hell was never prepared for man. God made it for the devil and his followers. God has done everything He can to stop man from going to this dreadful place. The cross of Calvary is a roadblock, stopping man from his slide down into a lost eternity. Christ died to stop men and women from going there. If man wilfully chooses to be a follower of satan, he definitely will be with satan throughout eternity."

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Barb

Precisely...what sane individual would choose hellfire over eternity in glory?!

Yet, man makes this choice every day when they willingly and willfully sin.

If we didn't have a choice in the matter, it wouldn't make sense...we would be nothing more than puppets, living any way we desired because it didn't matter...we'd make it in anyway.

Well, listen to the Word...

"Depart from me, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41).

"For the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23).

"This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14, 15).

This is from Truth Shall Triumph...

"Hell was never prepared for man. God made it for the devil and his followers. God has done everything He can to stop man from going to this dreadful place. The cross of Calvary is a roadblock, stopping man from his slide down into a lost eternity. Christ died to stop men and women from going there. If man wilfully chooses to be a follower of satan, he definitely will be with satan throughout eternity."

What is assumed is that these scriptures indicate a final condition of the sinner. Though God does punish and hold man accountable for his choices, these verses in no way prove a finally state of the sinner. "Everlasting" in Matthew 25.41 is translated in Young's Transliteration as "age-enduring" meaning an indefinite period of time. Which would be better understood as "fire that is unquenched until it accomplishes its purpose of purging the sinner.

2 Cor. 5:19 and Col.1:20: Let's us know that Jesus dealt with the wages of sin:

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
KJV

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
KJV

Originally Posted by crakjak

Matthew 25.41 is translated in Young's Transliteration as "age-enduring" meaning an indefinite period of time. Which would be better understood as "fire that is unquenched until it accomplishes its purpose of purging the sinner.

I promised that I would not allow myself to be drawn into this debate/discussion, however, after reading all of the things you have written, especially the statements quoted, I would like to ask one thing of you, namely this:

Please provide at least one scriptural passage which reveals the length of time that this "purging (of) the sinner" lasts. Will it be one day, a week, month, year, or perhaps decades, or centuries? Being confident that you cannot provide at least one scriptural passage to support such an absurd allegation, then by your own words you have just blown your "theory" of UR right out of the window!

Yes, I know, you say that Young's translation of the Bible asserts this, but just who is Young? Is he such a pious mortal that he cannot be deceived into embracing and publishing something that is in error? Young is a fallible mortal, just as you and I. And we have been warned of the consequences of placing our dependence upon man instead of God. At least the contents of the KJV of the Bible were written by a group of men, which seems to me to adhere more closely to the biblical requirement to ascertain the truthfulness of things through the words of two or more witnesses.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by PaPaDon

I promised that I would not allow myself to be drawn into this debate/discussion, however, after reading all of the things you have written, especially the statements quoted, I would like to ask one thing of you, namely this:

Please provide at least one scriptural passage which reveals the length of time that this "purging (of) the sinner" lasts. Will it be one day, a week, month, year, or perhaps decades, or centuries? Being confident that you cannot provide at least one scriptural passage to support such an absurd allegation, then by your own words you have just blown your "theory" of UR right out of the window!

Yes, I know, you say that Young's translation of the Bible asserts this, but just who is Young? Is he such a pious mortal that he cannot be deceived into embracing and publishing something that is in error? Young is a fallible mortal, just as you and I. And we have been warned of the consequences of placing our dependence upon man instead of God. At least the contents of the KJV of the Bible were written by a group of men, which seems to me to adhere more closely to the biblical requirement to ascertain the truthfulness of things through the words of two or more witnesses.

Papa,

I have no need to provide a scripture to determine the actual length of time, the very fact that there are other well documented meanings to the words that have been manipulated to mean "unending" is sufficient in and of its self.

While I respect the KJV, the truth is it was authorized by King James not King Jesus. King James was very interested in supporting the apostate church with an "authorized" canon of scripture. Oh, and BTW it has been revised over 300 times since 1611. Yes, the true revelation of God is presented, but one must look beyond the biases of the translators. "The letter killeth, the Spirit makes alive."