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Old 11-09-2015, 08:27 AM
Sabby Sabby is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rapid City
Posts: 902
Re: Changing To Preterism from Rapture Doctrine

Reader,
I came to the Lord in the mid-70's and my end-time beliefs were formed by Lindsey's book, The Late, Great Planet Earth.
I went to Europe in the military shortly thereafter and had pastors that taught a historicist/partial preterist point of view.
During my years in (UPC) bible school I had to take apart both positions to come up with what I thought was the scriptural "intent" on the end of time.

The natural progression of secularism has led to less Christian influence in America; I don't conflate our crumbling culture as a symptom of a nearing Tribulation. We have real martyrs in the middle east.
Jesus said, "...no many knows" and that is what I have come up with. So I live my life as a child of the One whose train will one day arrive at the station. No matter what your end time belief may be, just BE AT THE STATION when He returns with your lamp bright, full of oil and wicks trimmed. Be ready.

Sean is not interested in discussing your question. He is willing to slam anyone that doesn't think like he does.
I believe what I believe. Jesus is going to literally return again.
__________________
The Gospel is in Genesis

Last edited by Sabby; 11-09-2015 at 08:28 AM. Reason: grammar
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2015, 08:40 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
Re: Changing To Preterism from Rapture Doctrine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabby View Post
Reader,
I came to the Lord in the mid-70's and my end-time beliefs were formed by Lindsey's book, The Late, Great Planet Earth.
I went to Europe in the military shortly thereafter and had pastors that taught a historicist/partial preterist point of view.
During my years in (UPC) bible school I had to take apart both positions to come up with what I thought was the scriptural "intent" on the end of time.

The natural progression of secularism has led to less Christian influence in America; I don't conflate our crumbling culture as a symptom of a nearing Tribulation. We have real martyrs in the middle east.
Jesus said, "...no many knows" and that is what I have come up with. So I live my life as a child of the One whose train will one day arrive at the station. No matter what your end time belief may be, just BE AT THE STATION when He returns with your lamp bright, full of oil and wicks trimmed. Be ready.

Sean is not interested in discussing your question. He is willing to slam anyone that doesn't think like he does.
I believe what I believe. Jesus is going to literally return again.
While I agree with your assessment of tradition, I strongly disagree with relegating it all to "Whatever happens happens," because the Lord spent a huge part of the entire bible talking about prophecy. So he expects us to study it and learn the truth.

I think the reason so many think we cannot really know, so let's just be happy that whatever is true will happen, without knowing what it will be, is the fact that the issue covers SO MUCH BIBLE that it takes months maybe years to sort it out and people just don't take that time to do it. That's also why the average preacher won't even deal with it, and they think there are experts whom they will rely upon to study it for them, so they don't have to.

So, I agree Sean won't deal with it honestly.

But I cannot agree with it being sufficient to just believe Jesus is coming back whenever, either. If that is how we should think, then God wasted entire biblical chapters and even some biblical books on us, since we're not getting into them at all.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2015, 09:40 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
Re: Changing To Preterism from Rapture Doctrine

Traditionalists cannot think the way we do when we say we allow the bible to correct us. they're so stuck in traditions, and so unaccustomed to letting the bible teach them or correct them that they only look for what they already believe in the bible when they read it.

Letting the bible be a book that instructs them as to what to believe is a totally alien concept to them.

Sticking to the POINT of this thread, which was violated terribly by the specific people who were asked to abide by it, let me say this:


TESTIMONY OF WHY I CHANGED PROPHETIC VIEWS


In the early 90's I preached a bible study one Tuesday night from the book of Revelation regarding the opening of the seven-sealed book. I told the congregation that it was a viewpoint that was entirely different from anything I taught about that issue before. I was taking it to a personal perspective, rather than an "end of the world" perspective. I taught that we are like the books that God is opening up, and indicated that a series of dealings upon our "self life" must occur to "break" our lives open, in order to reveal Christ.

I do not rely upon feelings to determine what is truth. However, there should be a witness of the Spirit when one is preaching or teaching truth. And I was overwhelmed with an anointing presence of God as I taught, while some of the saints wept with hands raised as I taught. What an unusual manifestation of glory in a regular, what was normally, a "toned-down" mid-week bible study!

And I felt as though God was slapping me on the back, encouraging me, saying, "Now you're getting somewhere!"

Things progressed in the mid 90's. I formed a website and began writing my studies, and posting them on my website, not even realizing where they would take me. A series entitled THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK SERIES, shown on this website in the MATURITY page, was the next step. I saw the temple imagery in the book of Revelation as being indicative of the Church built on the Rock by Jesus, according to Matthew 16:18. I began concentrating on that aspect of Revelation, noting that the book was a Revelation of Jesus Christ, and not bombs and computer chips.

Before I even recognized the slant of prophecy to be what I now see it as, I did a study entitled TAKE A BITE OF ETERNAL LIFE. It is about Revelation's 5th chapter where Jesus, like a High Priest, entering heaven, like a most holy place, and obtaining the book to redeem mankind. Like someone going into the Garden again, after being barred out.

I promised the Lord I would preach this everywhere I went. It was a message that stressed Acts 2:38 salvation, and opened Revelation up in an entirely new light to me.

Shortly afterwards, I was invited to speak at the UPCI's CANADA CONFERENCE, where I preached it in obedience to my promise to God.

It was about then, also, that someone of an entirely different denomination contacted me, and indicated something miraculous was occurring. He said he heard tapes by a man named Malcolm Smith from Britain who spoke about Revelation 5 in a manner he never read or heard before in his life. The guy asked me if I heard M. Smith before. I never heard of him in my life. He was blown away. He said the very point I noted in my study about Jesus being High Priest and entering the most holy place of heaven is exactly what M. Smith noted he never heard before from anyone.

Well, neither had I!

And it was THAT study that opened this entire perspective of Revelation up to me.

Soon I received a call from an apostolic minister in the USA whose congregant informed him that I was teaching the same things he was. He was amazed at how young I was (mid 30's at that time) since he knew several others who were into this as well, but all older brethren. I did not see all of Matthew 24 fulfilled at that time, and this brother indicated to me it was indeed all fulfilled. So I began searching and challenging traditions I had been taught years before. I wanted to be Berean, and examine in scripture everything I was taught to ensure that it was so.

Then I received another note from a member of Rev. Larry T. Smith's church, who witnessed the same thing. Bro. Smith and I were teaching the same thing, too!

I contacted Bro. Smith and came to preach for him, and did not even concentrate on prophecy. However, what I concentrated upon was "who we are in Christ," and how Revelation speaks of that aspect of our lives. The work of the cross became central in my studies for those, and several more years to follow. Revelation became a book of Victory to me, and not something horrible. And Bro. Smith jumped up afterwards, and noted that I preached the same thing he was preaching at about the time I was receiving these thoughts, the mid 90's.

These two men of God were dropped into my lap, in the midst of my studies, in what I believe to be genuine Apostolic witness, as Paul compared notes with the ministers of genuine repute, lest he had run in vain (Gal. 2:1-2).
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2015, 12:30 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Posts: 23,543
Re: Changing To Preterism from Rapture Doctrine

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Traditionalists cannot think the way we do when we say we allow the bible to correct us. they're so stuck in traditions, and so unaccustomed to letting the bible teach them or correct them that they only look for what they already believe in the bible when they read it.

Letting the bible be a book that instructs them as to what to believe is a totally alien concept to them.

Sticking to the POINT of this thread, which was violated terribly by the specific people who were asked to abide by it, let me say this:


TESTIMONY OF WHY I CHANGED PROPHETIC VIEWS


In the early 90's I preached a bible study one Tuesday night from the book of Revelation regarding the opening of the seven-sealed book. I told the congregation that it was a viewpoint that was entirely different from anything I taught about that issue before. I was taking it to a personal perspective, rather than an "end of the world" perspective. I taught that we are like the books that God is opening up, and indicated that a series of dealings upon our "self life" must occur to "break" our lives open, in order to reveal Christ.

I do not rely upon feelings to determine what is truth. However, there should be a witness of the Spirit when one is preaching or teaching truth. And I was overwhelmed with an anointing presence of God as I taught, while some of the saints wept with hands raised as I taught. What an unusual manifestation of glory in a regular, what was normally, a "toned-down" mid-week bible study!

And I felt as though God was slapping me on the back, encouraging me, saying, "Now you're getting somewhere!"

Things progressed in the mid 90's. I formed a website and began writing my studies, and posting them on my website, not even realizing where they would take me. A series entitled THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK SERIES, shown on this website in the MATURITY page, was the next step. I saw the temple imagery in the book of Revelation as being indicative of the Church built on the Rock by Jesus, according to Matthew 16:18. I began concentrating on that aspect of Revelation, noting that the book was a Revelation of Jesus Christ, and not bombs and computer chips.

Before I even recognized the slant of prophecy to be what I now see it as, I did a study entitled TAKE A BITE OF ETERNAL LIFE. It is about Revelation's 5th chapter where Jesus, like a High Priest, entering heaven, like a most holy place, and obtaining the book to redeem mankind. Like someone going into the Garden again, after being barred out.

I promised the Lord I would preach this everywhere I went. It was a message that stressed Acts 2:38 salvation, and opened Revelation up in an entirely new light to me.

Shortly afterwards, I was invited to speak at the UPCI's CANADA CONFERENCE, where I preached it in obedience to my promise to God.

It was about then, also, that someone of an entirely different denomination contacted me, and indicated something miraculous was occurring. He said he heard tapes by a man named Malcolm Smith from Britain who spoke about Revelation 5 in a manner he never read or heard before in his life. The guy asked me if I heard M. Smith before. I never heard of him in my life. He was blown away. He said the very point I noted in my study about Jesus being High Priest and entering the most holy place of heaven is exactly what M. Smith noted he never heard before from anyone.

Well, neither had I!

And it was THAT study that opened this entire perspective of Revelation up to me.

Soon I received a call from an apostolic minister in the USA whose congregant informed him that I was teaching the same things he was. He was amazed at how young I was (mid 30's at that time) since he knew several others who were into this as well, but all older brethren. I did not see all of Matthew 24 fulfilled at that time, and this brother indicated to me it was indeed all fulfilled. So I began searching and challenging traditions I had been taught years before. I wanted to be Berean, and examine in scripture everything I was taught to ensure that it was so.

Then I received another note from a member of Rev. Larry T. Smith's church, who witnessed the same thing. Bro. Smith and I were teaching the same thing, too!

I contacted Bro. Smith and came to preach for him, and did not even concentrate on prophecy. However, what I concentrated upon was "who we are in Christ," and how Revelation speaks of that aspect of our lives. The work of the cross became central in my studies for those, and several more years to follow. Revelation became a book of Victory to me, and not something horrible. And Bro. Smith jumped up afterwards, and noted that I preached the same thing he was preaching at about the time I was receiving these thoughts, the mid 90's.

These two men of God were dropped into my lap, in the midst of my studies, in what I believe to be genuine Apostolic witness, as Paul compared notes with the ministers of genuine repute, lest he had run in vain (Gal. 2:1-2).


This is a sad story of how a man had his name removed from the Book of Life, by changing the meanings of the words of the book of Revelation.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2015, 11:54 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
Re: Changing To Preterism from Rapture Doctrine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabby View Post
Reader,
I came to the Lord in the mid-70's and my end-time beliefs were formed by Lindsey's book, The Late, Great Planet Earth.
I went to Europe in the military shortly thereafter and had pastors that taught a historicist/partial preterist point of view.
During my years in (UPC) bible school I had to take apart both positions to come up with what I thought was the scriptural "intent" on the end of time.

The natural progression of secularism has led to less Christian influence in America; I don't conflate our crumbling culture as a symptom of a nearing Tribulation. We have real martyrs in the middle east.
Jesus said, "...no many knows" and that is what I have come up with. So I live my life as a child of the One whose train will one day arrive at the station. No matter what your end time belief may be, just BE AT THE STATION when He returns with your lamp bright, full of oil and wicks trimmed. Be ready.

Sean is not interested in discussing your question. He is willing to slam anyone that doesn't think like he does.
I believe what I believe. Jesus is going to literally return again.



This has been an ongoing argument for about 2 years Sabby. If I wasnt interested, I would have bailed long ago.


And you are right regarding your seemingly neutral stance in prophecy.

It is better to have NO OPINION, then the WRONG OPINION
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