Numerical Growth Is Not A Sign Of Revival...

Esaias · #1 01-19-2016, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1

This is wrong on so many levels I don't know what to say

Start at the beginning, and explain what is wrong? Do you think people should NOT have it explained to them that baptism is not punching a ticket for heaven, but is far more, and includes a commitment to be a part of the Kingdom of God?

allstate1 · #2 01-20-2016, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Start at the beginning, and explain what is wrong? Do you think people should NOT have it explained to them that baptism is not punching a ticket for heaven, but is far more, and includes a commitment to be a part of the Kingdom of God?

No I do not! I believe Acts 2:38 punches your ticket to Heaven!! ( Not gonna argue about tongues being the sign of receiving the gift.) The question was asked, what must we do to be saved?, and you know what Peter said. He did not add any theology requirements. If you add any other requirements to salvation you need to study up on what happened at Calvary when Jesus died for your sins!!

allstate1 · #3 01-20-2016, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Start at the beginning, and explain what is wrong? Do you think people should NOT have it explained to them that baptism is not punching a ticket for heaven, but is far more, and includes a commitment to be a part of the Kingdom of God?

I guess I need to understand what you consider salvation. If you believe baptism is a necessity then your idea of having someone understand the concept of commitment or the kingdom and a commitment to the kingdom before baptism is putting the cart before the horse. Not to mention the millions of ideas and different beliefs of what commitment to the Kingdom is! If you wait for a full understanding or proof of such commitment one may never get baptized.

Esaias · #4 01-20-2016, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1

I guess I need to understand what you consider salvation. If you believe baptism is a necessity then your idea of having someone understand the concept of commitment or the kingdom and a commitment to the kingdom before baptism is putting the cart before the horse. Not to mention the millions of ideas and different beliefs of what commitment to the Kingdom is! If you wait for a full understanding or proof of such commitment one may never get baptized.

So you believe one can be saved, and yet not be a disciple of Jesus? You believe also one can be saved, and not be a member of the church? Help me understand this, because what I originally stated seems so self evident to me I am honestly surprised at your surprise.

allstate1 · #5 01-20-2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

So you believe one can be saved, and yet not be a disciple of Jesus? You believe also one can be saved, and not be a member of the church? Help me understand this, because what I originally stated seems so self evident to me I am honestly surprised at your surprise.

Would depend on your definition of Disciple. Also your definition of the church.

Esaias · #6 01-20-2016, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1

Would depend on your definition of Disciple. Also your definition of the church.

Disciple - student or follower of Jesus.
Church - the people called out from among the world, gathered together into relationship with Christ, ie the people of God, ie the followers or disciples of Jesus.

allstate1 · #7 01-20-2016, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Disciple - student or follower of Jesus.
Church - the people called out from among the world, gathered together into relationship with Christ, ie the people of God, ie the followers or disciples of Jesus.

I believe one is saved with repentance and baptism receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Sure one needs to be a follower of Jesus Christ. However ones degree of understanding, commitment, participation etc. will vary from another. This does not mean one is saved the other is not. I believe one can sit on a church pew for years never be "active" and is still saved. I believe one can be involved in everything in a local assembly let a few cuss words slip at work and they are also saved. I also believe these same people can be "lost". I believe one can be trying their best to kick nicotine and still be saved. The difference being who ask for forgiveness. Salvation does not and cannot depend on our human capability of remaining sin free. The Blood of Jesus Christ washes us white as snow. A works based salvation completely abolishes what happened at Calvary!

Esaias · #8 01-20-2016, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1

I believe one is saved with repentance and baptism receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Sure one needs to be a follower of Jesus Christ. However ones degree of understanding, commitment, participation etc. will vary from another. This does not mean one is saved the other is not. I believe one can sit on a church pew for years never be "active" and is still saved. I believe one can be involved in everything in a local assembly let a few cuss words slip at work and they are also saved. I also believe these same people can be "lost". I believe one can be trying their best to kick nicotine and still be saved. The difference being who ask for forgiveness. Salvation does not and cannot depend on our human capability of remaining sin free. The Blood of Jesus Christ washes us white as snow. A works based salvation completely abolishes what happened at Calvary!

Jesus said "Count the cost" in the context of deciding to follow him. The Great Commission is a commission to MAKE DISCIPLES, not get folks "saved first, worry about discipleship later."

One cannot be saved outside of being added to the church of God, being saved means being made a part of Christ's Body, being made part of Christ's family. The call to repentance IS the call to discipleship, death to self, the call to FOLLOW JESUS, to become one of his disciples.

Takes less than 60 seconds for an evangelist to explain it.