Elephant in the room - accusation of judging

[shazeep]

Again, I'm not following your writing. i cannot tell what you are trying to say. Explain yourself more clearly. You do not write clearly.

do i have to say that maybe you just cannot read clearly, or that it serves you to lecture me on my writing? If you will just point out the grammatical errors in any of those 3 sentences, i will correct it for you, ok? But they are just a prophecy based upon you reap what you sow.

see that the solution is obvious, because it is what you don't want to do.

if you build higher walls rather than longer tables, what you fear is what will happen, and you know this because it is what you fear--do i need to dig up the verse?

If you cannot fathom how All Muslims are Lost enables the chaos we are witnessing in your name on the other side of the planet, that is coming to you, then perhaps that is a better frame for this conversation.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Again, I'm not following your writing. i cannot tell what you are trying to say. Explain yourself more clearly. You do not write clearly.

do i have to say that maybe you just cannot read clearly, or that it serves you to lecture me on my writing? If you will just point out the grammatical errors in any of those 3 sentences, i will correct it for you, ok? But they are just a prophecy based upon you reap what you sow.

see that the solution is obvious, because it is what you don't want to do.

if you build higher walls rather than longer tables, what you fear is what will happen, and you know this because it is what you fear--do i need to dig up the verse?

If you cannot fathom how All Muslims are Lost enables the chaos we are witnessing in your name on the other side of the planet, that is coming to you, then perhaps that is a better frame for this conversation.

It is not grammar errors. I already said you are saying things without adding the extra needed thoughts in your mind to be written with them.

Now, answer some of mine for a change.

[mfblume]

Shazeep, do you believe muslims or ANYONE is lost if they do not even believe Jesus died on the cross? If not, then why? If so, then why?

Shazeep,:
Joh 3:17-18 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do you believe these verses indicate that people who do not believe they need be saved through Christ are saved? If so, why? If not, why? What does it mean to not believe on Him, and why are they condemned if they do not believe on Him?

I predict you cannot answer these questions or will refuse.

Also, what is there between me and muslims that I need to forgive them for? You spoke of forgiveness, and I do not recognize why I would have to forgive them for I personally have nothing against them. The bible says we need faith in the work of the cross to be saved, and they deny the cross even occurred, so how can they have faith in it to be saved? That's my conclusion. It's nothing personal. lol Forgiveness is required when someone has hurt me personally. There is no personal issue here, since it is a general overview of faith compared to faith. Not people. I know people are involved, but the people are the issue. It's their faith.

When it comes to forgiveness it's been you who has taken this personally and attacked me as a person.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Shazeep, do you believe muslims or ANYONE is lost if they do not even believe Jesus died on the cross? If not, then why? If so, then why?

Can you explain why someone would intentionally hate their own life? Why did the Good Samaritan help the guy in the ditch? He did not believe Christ on the cross, so why is he held up as an example to emulate? You are insisting upon a literal understanding of these spiritual concepts, and demonstrating that you have not grasped them spiritually, perhaps. You are maybe putting conditions on Christ that the Bible did not mean to enforce, although i agree with them. But you can't just cut out these passages of Scripture and pretend they don't exist.

I mean, observe your thought progression since we have considered the GS. First, he never existed; then he was not saved. Then he was saved because he accepted Christ. All of those have been shot down now, Mike. And we had similar struggles with every spiritual passage i introduced. It's time to contemplate whether or not Scripture is being spiritually withheld from you, wadr.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Shazeep,:
Joh 3:17-18 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do you believe these verses indicate that people who do not believe they need be saved through Christ are saved? If so, why? If not, why? What does it mean to not believe on Him, and why are they condemned if they do not believe on Him?

i just treated this verse, so that will prolly do, if not let me know.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I predict you cannot answer these questions or will refuse.

oops

Originally Posted by mfblume

Also, what is there between me and muslims that I need to forgive them for? You spoke of forgiveness, and I do not recognize why I would have to forgive them for I personally have nothing against them.

um, you don't think maybe they have a claim against you? A snide answer here is that i was awake for sunrise, and it doesn't come from where you might think it comes from sorry. I quoted forgive and you will be forgiven in this context to contrast with the spirit of "they are all lost."

Originally Posted by mfblume

The bible says we need faith in the work of the cross to be saved, and they deny the cross even occurred, so how can they have faith in it to be saved?

The Qur'an says what you are saying, yes, but it also says follow Christ or be doomed, and in more places, i note. Consider that you might be misunderstanding these, as they seem to conflict. Consider that the RCC had the world awash in blood then, much like your religion has it now, and for a Muslim perhaps your demand has a different, legal meaning to them that does not approach its spiritual meaning. Consider that there are 100 points of Scripture that a Muslim would fully agree with for every one that you manage to condemn them with. Of course, they are all the verses you have spiritually edited out, but whatever.

You don't have to go to church with Muslims, or determine the state of their salvation, or agree with their doctrine. You are neighbors; you have to be a decent neighbor, period. Or rather, obviously you do not have to be, drone bomb them into oblivion and circulate petitions denying them immigration, and keep trying to convince me how they are lost

Originally Posted by mfblume

That's my conclusion. It's nothing personal. lol Forgiveness is required when someone has hurt me personally. There is no personal issue here, since it is a general overview of faith compared to faith. Not people. I know people are involved, but the people are the issue. It's their faith.

so then you remain oblivious to the damage you cause, and have a personal faith in where the sun rises that others cannot challenge.

Originally Posted by mfblume

When it comes to forgiveness it's been you who has taken this personally and attacked me as a person.

yes, i have lost patience with your sanctimoniousness and condescending at times, and tried to do some tit-for-tat to illuminate it, which was wrong and i have apologized, more than once. Of course in your spiritual state i don't expect you to ever forget it or forgive me, or apologize yourself, none of that.

Of course if you do, i will have to apologize again...lol. I really don't mean that to be unkind, Mike, i hope you see that. And i don't really take offense at your indiscretions, we are debating. But note that i am not a pastor.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It is not grammar errors. I already said you are saying things without adding the extra needed thoughts in your mind to be written with them.

Now, answer some of mine for a change.

possibly those were just not for you then, no big deal. Fire away.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

possibly those were just not for you then, no big deal. Fire away.

lol. whatever.

Now, tell me what these verses do to YOUR faith and what conclusions YOU get from them:

Joh 3:17-18 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do you believe these verses indicate that people who do not believe they need be saved through Christ are saved? If so, why? If not, why? What does it mean to not believe on Him, and why are they condemned if they do not believe on Him?