Elephant in the room - accusation of judging

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

I looked for nothing. I just wanted to see if a muslim would do what you accused me of doing, and then see how you would react.

oh ya, my bad, no agenda there at all

Lol. i never said I had no agenda with you in that chat with him. . Say what you will but you failed.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Lol. i never said I had no agenda with you in that chat with him. . Say what you will but you failed.

Mike, you are making at least somewhat contradictory claims one right behind the other now; have a friend review this last little exchange and get their opinion maybe. And i don't mean to imply that agendas are bad, necessarily, just that you had one, there isn't even anything wrong with it per se, but you were not engaging a Muslim in order to reconcile with him, were you?

You were going to peck away until you found some point of division, right? that, if you were both neighbors just being good neighbors, would never have come up. So congrats, now you have made another enemy of a neighbor--but you "succeeded" and i have failed. That's ok with me--i have no daughters

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Mike, you are making at least somewhat contradictory claims one right behind the other now; have a friend review this last little exchange and get their opinion maybe. And i don't mean to imply that agendas are bad, necessarily, just that you had one, there isn't even anything wrong with it per se, but you were not engaging a Muslim in order to reconcile with him, were you?

You were going to peck away until you found some point of division, right? that, if you were both neighbors just being good neighbors, would never have come up. So congrats, now you have made another enemy of a neighbor--but you "succeeded" and i have failed. That's ok with me--i have no daughters

Shazeep.

Let me explain something I should have noted long ago. My focus and intent in ministry and Christianity is not to find out who is wrong and compare them to me. I do not go around preaching "All muslims are lost." I don't compare religions at all in my ministry. I simply tell people to do what the bible says and believe what it tells us to believe.

This issue of all muslims being lost came in in chatting on this forum. And it was not so much pointing at them, but pointing to the need of the cross. It's hardly my focus. You focused on it with me, so that's where our chats have been. But this sort of discussion is something I never had before with anyone.

That's why I keep saying it's not my beliefs, but the bible. It's not who is as good as me. It's who obeys the word. My absolute love in the word has been around the cross. I preached this past weekend about how to apply the truth of the cross to our problems in life. I said nothing about who does not believe the cross.

You took a note in dialogue with you about muslims, and made it the deal to talk about, not me. And then you assumed I was on a vendetta against muslims. Man alive, I never hardly mentioned the word MUSLIM until this chat began with you.

So, don't think my chats with YOU show the be all and end all of what I focus upon. lol.

I agree that if all my intention was was to point fingers at musims and say, "you're lost," that would be crazy. We're not here to throw dirt, but to give truth. The only point I see in comparisons with them and us is to highlight the importance of the cross. Relating THAT truth is the impetus behind saying anything to YOU about muslims. It's not to show how lost muslims are. It's to show how much we need the cross. And for you to take my chats with YOU and determine what my focus on in Christianity is all about, is to be presumptuous beyond what I can describe.

I tell everyone to check my sermons to see what I focus on. Not forum chats. lol.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Mike, you are making at least somewhat contradictory claims one right behind the other now; have a friend review this last little exchange and get their opinion maybe. And i don't mean to imply that agendas are bad, necessarily, just that you had one, there isn't even anything wrong with it per se, but you were not engaging a Muslim in order to reconcile with him, were you?

You were going to peck away until you found some point of division, right? that, if you were both neighbors just being good neighbors, would never have come up. So congrats, now you have made another enemy of a neighbor--but you "succeeded" and i have failed. That's ok with me--i have no daughters

You really imagine things way too much. Let me get detailed about it, but you;ll likely throw it away as you have my other explanations. Well, others are reading, too, so here goes.

You told me it is hateful to say ALL ____ ARE LOST.You magnified Muslims and their faith and listed interaction with them. So, I wanted to KNOW FOR MYSELF if what you claim about ME and limited to ME was what they did or did not do as Muslims. So, I checked. I know what the Koran says about the SON OF GOD belief being damnable, while the bible clearly proposes it. So I presented it to the muslim and asked what that meant.

He said about me what you claim I said about them. I am lost.

I wanted to know if they do what you claim we should not do.

I found out.

Did God allow that to occur to trip me up like writing a bible that deceives people like you claim? No, God is not evil, Shazeep, to do that sort of thing. Wherever you got that impression is beyond me.

That is some weird concept of the bible. Dark even. Similar to you saying we cannot say we can KNOW we are saved in this present moment of life and existence, and I show you three verses where Paul said WE CAN KNOW, and pass it off and say God put them there to trip me up. lol. What if God put them there because they are true? What if you were wrong and these scriptures are there to help you know that we CAN know if we are saved now or not?

God forbid you were wrong about not knowing we are saved! So, stop saying God put verses there to trip people up just because they contradict your belief and show your belief to be wrong. Man, you can never be wrong with tat attitude! You say something the bible contradicts, and you claim you're still right and the bible had that there by God's intention to trip people up who are wrong. Riiiiiiiiight. And you cannot see how self serving that is?