Gender Laws Forced on Churches?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Perhaps not. But let me throw out a scenario.

An avid soulwinner from an Apostolic church, makes friends with a transgendered person at work. He or she, as the case may be, is determined to win this person to the Lord.

The soulwinner prays, interecedes, travails, and fasts, being a light and loving friend to the transgendered person.

Finally, a chance to really talk with the transgendered person comes around. They have a wonderful conversation about the Lord and His goodness. The Gospel is mentioned. An invitation to the soulwinner's church is given.

The transgendered person accepts, thinking that if this kind, warmhearted and loving person is what a true Christian is, then his/her church must be just the same.

The transgendered attends on a Sunday morning. He or she attempts to use the restroom per the gender of choice. Someone sees it, reports it to an usher, the usher tells the pastor, and the pastor tells the usher to clear the foyer and wait (or worse, go in) for the transgender to come out.

A scene is made, the usher isn't as kind, warmhearted, and loving a person as the soulwinner/coworker. Or maybe so, but is just following orders. Or maybe so, but just isn't up to speed on all the politically correct lingo, and offense is made. The transgender is:

1.) Told to leave the building for the safety of whichever gender

2.) Allowed to stay for the service, but warned that he or she must use the appropriate restroom next time, or he/she won't be welcome back

3.) Nothing is said, but the transgender person is then subtly escorted and followed by the usher for the rest of the meeting, while a quiet word is sent throughout the church so that husbands can protect wives, mothers can protect children, and etc. The transgendered person then of course, realizes what's going on, even though no one has said a thing.

If allowed, he or she stays for the rest of the service, out of courtesy for the soulwinner coworker.

Afterward, heart hardened, feeling hurt and embarrassed, the transgendered person never wants to step foot into an Apostolic Church again.

He or she closes him/herself off from the Gospel. The avid soulwinner can't make a dent.

And for what?

For straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel?

For forgetting the weightier matters of the law?

This scenario is not intended to mean that transgendered people don't need to repent, or that we should coddle them in their sin.

But the Gospel is more important than where a person relieves themselves.

Accommodation, to me, is like an olive branch that let's a transgendered person, who doesn't know his/her right hand from his/her left, who is dead in trespasses, and already condemned, know that he or she can come to a meeting without being judged, harassed, ridiculed, or whatever, and that he or she is then free to experience the presence of God, hear the Word of the Lord proclaimed and heralded, and make a choice to give his or her heart to Jesus, without restraint, and without the church interfering simply because of what restroom he or she went into before service began.

That, to me, is way more important.

And in case anyone thinks I'm just being philosophical, less than two months ago, a transgendered young man, who was trying to pass as a woman, recently went to an Apostolic Church here in my state, a few hours north of me, and wrote a long testimony of how God changed his life and how the ministry and leadership of said Church helped him realize who the man is that God wants him to become, because they didn't pass judgment, or demonstration any recalcitrance toward him being there in a dress, with makeup and jewelry on.

The fellow repented of his sin, and shared it all on Facebook, with before and after pics for all to see.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

And in case anyone thinks I'm just being philosophical, less than two months ago, a transgendered young man, who was trying to pass as a woman, recently went to an Apostolic Church here in my state, a few hours north of me, and wrote a long testimony of how God changed his life and how the ministry and leadership of said Church helped him realize who the man is that God wants him to become, because they didn't pass judgment, or demonstration any recalcitrance toward him being there in a dress, with makeup and jewelry on.

The fellow repented of his sin, and shared it all on Facebook, with before and after pics for all to see.

Since the person posted this on Facebook, can you provide a link?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Since the person posted this on Facebook, can you provide a link?

I can't find anything on Facebook that corresponds to what what was stated, can someone provide a link?

Also, what church was this?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I can't find anything on Facebook that corresponds to what what was stated, can someone provide a link?

Also, what church was this?

Apostolic Truth Center in Appleton, WI. Aaron Soto is the Pastor.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I can't find anything on Facebook that corresponds to what what was stated, can someone provide a link?

Also, what church was this?

You do realize that there are privacy settings and that not everything posted of Facebook is available to just anyone, right?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I can't find anything on Facebook that corresponds to what what was stated, can someone provide a link?

Also, what church was this?

Is my word not sufficient? Pics or it didn't happen? Is that what's happening here?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Is my word not sufficient? Pics or it didn't happen? Is that what's happening here?

lol

No, I'm just trying to find out what the story is.

Thanks for the info.

I'm not too familiar with how Facebook works, I don't do Facebook.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

lol

No, I'm just trying to find out what the story is.

Thanks for the info.

I'm not too familiar with how Facebook works, I don't do Facebook.

I found the testimony:

I love my church. I'd like to share something awesome about it. But I have to start with a not so awesome part. It starts when I originally came out publicly as transgender. It was shortly before I was to head off to navy boot camp. This was BEFORE President Obama eliminated the "don't ask don't tell" policy for gays in the military, so I knew I'd have to hide myself for the next four years.

Obviously, I wanted a day to enjoy myself as who I was, and to the fullest. I did this during the St. Martin's Road Fair in Franklin (a suburb of Milwaukee). For those of you who don't know what that is, it's basically a two to three mile rummage sale, I guess. Anyway, St. Martin's Rd is where that church is located. So on this Sunday, church is moved to the previous Saturday, so that the church may open its parking lot to the public, for a donation price. Members of the church parked for free.

Now, I'll spare details, but suffice it to say, only those who knew me knew the truth. I was skinny and convincing; to any who didn't know me, I was female. Period.

Anywho, I went there with my mother. As members of the church, we parked in the church lot. When I was finished with my shopping and returned to the car, I ran across my pastor (name withheld).

This is where the story becomes comparative.

You know what he told me? Not to be seen on church property like that, because people might think the church condoned it. What's worse is that, at the next church service, my parents return home all upset because the pastor rained hell down on THEM for it!

REALLY?

First off, no one even knew I was a guy. In the early morning before it got too crowded, a vendor said "Morning ladies" to my mother and I as we passed. Second, even had I been obvious, how would anyone know I even attended that church? (Which at the time, I did not). Third, since when is it the pastor's job to worry what people outside free church think? Finally, if he was going to come down on anyone, it should've been ME. NOT my parents.

Now the good part. You all at ATC remember how I showed up to my first service there? Black and blue dress, silver high heels. And I know, I didn't look convincing, you all knew I was a male. And how did everyone react, including Pastor Soto himself?

The same way you would with anyone else. With love. With open arms. With comments like "What'd you think, coming back again?" "Glad to have you here!" "Welcome to our church!"

So in closing, let's compare what each pastor accomplished. My former pastor: nothing good. I simply began to hate the man, and swore never to return to his church even should I have gotten right with God. Pastor Soto: My eventual change into the MAN God made me, putting me back on the path to heaven!

Thank God for the churches that still do things right!

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I found the testimony:

More from the same person:

I just can't get over this whole thing! I never thought I'd ever be so joyful in being a man! Not to dumb down women; as I've said before, I find you ladies to be God's most beautiful creation, and we men wouldn't survive without you. God said so Himself (Genesis 2:18-24).

But as for myself, God designed me to be a man, and it took me until I was almost 32 to see that. In that time, I NEVER thought being a man would bring me such joy. But it has. I'm happier with who I am now than I ever was then, and I was pretty darn happy!

Sorry if I seem to talk about this topic a lot, but I'm just so overjoyed about it

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Since the person posted this on Facebook, can you provide a link?

I looked for it for a long time. It wasn't posted by someone with whom I am friends. Rather the person who made the post tagged someone with whom I am friends, and so, it showed up in my news feed. I didn't make note of the person's name, and so, will probably not be able to find a link for you.