True or False: Grace is harder than Law

[KeptByTheWord]

E... I understand and totally get what you are saying.

However, scripture has been used in this discussion, and I stand by what I have said, that grace is much harder on the "FLESH". Because the fleshly works which were applicable and necessary under law, are changed and more now is required of outwardly and inwardly - because of grace.

To whom much is given, much is required. More has been given to us under grace, but more is required. And those requirements are that our flesh would be completely subdued and submitted to Christ... "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" and Jesus subjected his flesh to death... and so must we through the spirit, subject our flesh and its desires to die, and to allow the life and love of Christ to reign in us.

So... I don't think this is regurgitating "pop" theology!

I believe that at the heart of the discussion is the fact that grace requires our flesh and spirit to be submitted to Christ, while the law required works to be pleasing to God.

The scale that weighs the balance of the two (law and grace) tips in favor of grace though, because although much has been given, and much is required... grace ushers in the power and the hope that makes the difference in an overcoming life, whereas law failed to provide that power.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

E... I understand and totally get what you are saying.

However, scripture has been used in this discussion, and I stand by what I have said, that grace is much harder on the "FLESH". Because the fleshly works which were applicable and necessary under law, are changed and more now is required of outwardly and inwardly - because of grace.

To whom much is given, much is required. More has been given to us under grace, but more is required. And those requirements are that our flesh would be completely subdued and submitted to Christ... "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" and Jesus subjected his flesh to death... and so must we through the spirit, subject our flesh and its desires to die, and to allow the life and love of Christ to reign in us.

So... I don't think this is regurgitating "pop" theology!

I believe that at the heart of the discussion is the fact that grace requires our flesh and spirit to be submitted to Christ, while the law required works to be pleasing to God.

The scale that weighs the balance of the two (law and grace) tips in favor of grace though, because although much has been given, and much is required... grace ushers in the power and the hope that makes the difference in an overcoming life, whereas law failed to provide that power.

The law did not allow anyone to maintain an outward appearance of righteousness while the heart was not loving God supremely. I think people do not understand the depth of what the law required. To love God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is the hinge upon which the law hung, it was the heart of it and the intent of it.

But, the law provided no remedy for rebels except death, without mercy.

Living under the law would mean knowing that although your public sins of ignorance could be rolled off to next year by the actions of the high priest, those secret sins of rebellion (like coveting) HAD NO SACRIFICE AVAILABLE. So you only had a certain fearful expectation of fiery indignation... Perhaps you could plead with God for mercy, without excuses... but until Christ you had only a hope, not an expectation, that your sins were truly purged and remitted.

Sounds to me like grace is infinitely easier than law. Justification by law is impossible, it's too late, I'm already guilty. But justification by grace is nigh, in my heart and in my mouth, because Christ died for ME.

Under law I have to DO, under grace I only have to LET. (Let God justify me, under grace we just RECEIVE.)

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The law did not allow anyone to maintain an outward appearance of righteousness while the heart was not loving God supremely.

come again?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

come again?

The law did not allow anyone to maintain an outward appearance of righteousness while the heart was wrong. A lot of people think the law of God was only about outward appearances, as if the law did not take notice of the inward condition of the heart. But that is wrong, the law commanded heart purity. It did not, however, have a mechanism for bringing it about. Hence, the need for grace.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

you said it again

Want me to say it a third time?

lol

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Under law I have to DO, under grace I only have to LET.

yikes.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The law did not allow anyone to maintain an outward appearance of righteousness while the heart was not loving God supremely.

Amen!

I think people do not understand the depth of what the law required. To love God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is the hinge upon which the law hung, it was the heart of it and the intent of it.

But, the law provided no remedy for rebels except death, without mercy.

It wasn't just rebels who had a problem, and I know this is being dealt with in the otehr thread.

Heb 8:9....Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

No one could continue under law.

Law was spiritual and we are sold under sin without the cross.

Rom 7:14-15....For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. ..(15)....For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.


And Paul had the will to obey law in his heart:

Rom 7:18....For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

But the HOW TO OBEY IT was not within him.

Where there's a will there's not a way in this case!

Living under the law would mean knowing that although your public sins of ignorance could be rolled off to next year by the actions of the high priest, those secret sins of rebellion (like coveting) HAD NO SACRIFICE AVAILABLE.

And Paul coveted but did not want to!

Rom 7:7-8....What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ..(8)....But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

As soon as he was commanded by law, something called SIN rose up in him and slew his relationship with God although he had the will to not covet.

So you only had a certain fearful expectation of fiery indignation... Perhaps you could plead with God for mercy, without excuses... but until Christ you had only a hope, not an expectation, that your sins were truly purged and remitted.

Sounds to me like grace is infinitely easier than law. Justification by law is impossible, it's too late, I'm already guilty. But justification by grace is nigh, in my heart and in my mouth, because Christ died for ME.

Under law I have to DO, under grace I only have to LET. (Let God justify me, under grace we just RECEIVE.)

Amen,

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The law did not allow anyone to maintain an outward appearance of righteousness while the heart was not loving God supremely.

are we even reading the same Bible? Sanhedrin?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

are we even reading the same Bible? Sanhedrin?

Sanhedrin is a book in the Talmud. The law of God demanded that one's heart be right.