Those who never heard about Jesus?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Satan quoted the word of God to Jesus, but his biggest and overall principle and philosophy was extreme error. Same with Buddha and Krishna. It was not God whatsoever working in these men like it was Christ. They taught things like dualism, reincarnation, etc. These things fly directly in the face of biblical teachings. To say there is a "whole of divine revelation" with inclusion of Buddhist thought and these others, is to say God conflicts with Himself, since the teachings conflict one another.

God doesn't contradict himself. Limited human interpretations of divine truth contradict themselves. Reincarnation is mentioned in the Bible, it is tradition that rejects the notion. Here is an example.

Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

This was said long after Elijah had died. For this reason the Jews believe that Elijah will appear and herald the coming of Messiah. Yet the New Testament teaches that Jesus is the Messiah. Where was Elijah? God promised to send "Elijah the prophet", did God forget? No. We read that God did indeed send Elijah.

Matthew 17:12-14
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

John was Elijah reincarnated. There are also many other references to reincarnation that fly in the face of Christian tradition. But they are there.

When one religion emphasizes a given truth and another doesn't, or is completely silent on a truth, that doesn't mean that said truth is error.

When Jesus spoke of all who came before Him, he was referring to people bringing a way of salvation to the world. Moses LED TO Christ, as did all of the other biblical prophets. Buddha and Krishna came AS CHRIST.

Buddha and Krishna predate Christ. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that the One who was in Buddha and Krishna is also found in Christ? Jesus does practically quote them in several places.

The Old Testament has words to Israel to reject anything from any other religion and not incorporate any of it into their faith, and that He specifically through prophets and men of Israel alone would guide them. This accusation of exclusivity being evil is another direct conflict with the Bible.

It only conflicts with the exclusivist interpretation of the Bible.

What happened to you, Antipas? You believe everyone eventually gets saved, and now you believe all these religions are of God! When did THAT change take place?

I don't believe that every religion is of God. It is quite the contrary. I believe that every religion, as we know it today, has been distorted by human translators, theologians, and leaders. As a result, every religion on the planet is in error. However, in spite of the error, various divine truths can be found in every religion. Thus no religion on earth is absolute truth. But very religion contains truth. The spiritual seeker who is pure in heart will find these truths.

Is Hell forever? Yes and no. When I hear this question, I think of a short exchange between Alice and the White Rabbit from, Alice in Wonderland.

Alice: How long is forever?
White Rabbit: Sometimes, just one second.

The soul evolves and changes through time. Many souls are in unrest because they have not forgiven themselves, feel unworthy, deny that they are dead, or because they have not accepted the spiritual realities they are now experiencing due to those experiences being contrary to their religious dogmas. It is often the most "religious" that find the greatest trouble passing over. This is an everlasting "Hell". But eventually every soul will surrender, find peace, and enter the Light. Those who do enter the Light return to the Source of All, God, and are as rain drops returning to the sea. They will once again emanate from the Source as naturally as water vapor once more arises from the seas in the midday sun. In this, the Source (God), experiences all things (including himself) in innumerable ways. He desires to know and be known. And so through this He both knows and is known. This has been the process since all life evolved from a single celled organism roughly 3.5 billion years ago. He is the All In All.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

God doesn't contradict himself. Limited human interpretations of divine truth contradict themselves. Reincarnation is mentioned in the Bible, it is tradition that rejects the notion. Here is an example.

Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

That is the SPIRIT of Elijah, not actually Elijah. The bible says it is appointed unto man once to die.

Luke 1:17 KJV And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

This was said long after Elijah had died. For this reason the Jews believe that Elijah will appear and herald the coming of Messiah.

Not by being born as a baby and growing up.

They believe he will actually appear - the very same person. Fully grown and an adult like he left. Not born from a second womb and grow. Man, we can make the bible say anything if we take that reasoning you are displaying.

Yet the New Testament teaches that Jesus is the Messiah. Where was Elijah? God promised to send "Elijah the prophet", did God forget? No. We read that God did indeed send Elijah.

Matthew 17:12-14
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Luke 1:17 KJV And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John was Elijah reincarnated. There are also many other references to reincarnation that fly in the face of Christian tradition. But they are there.

That us extreme extreme error.

When one religion emphasizes a given truth and another doesn't, or is completely silent on a truth, that doesn't mean that said truth is error.

THEY CONFLICT.

Buddha and Krishna predate Christ. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that the One who was in Buddha and Krishna is also found in Christ? Jesus does practically quote them in several places.

Nope, no more than the one in satan was the one in Moses when satan said the words of Moses.

It only conflicts with the exclusivist interpretation of the Bible.

No, it is what the bible actually teaches. Like I said, Read Exodus 20 and note how God said to not mix anything in with His name from other religions.

I don't believe that every religion is of God. It is quite the contrary. I believe that every religion, as we know it today, has been distorted by human translators, theologians, and leaders. As a result, every religion on the planet is in error. However, in spite of the error, various divine truths can be found in every religion.

Even satanism.

Thus no religion on earth is absolute truth. But very religion contains truth. The spiritual seeker who is pure in heart will find these truths.

Is Hell forever? Yes and no. When I hear this question, I think of a short exchange between Alice and the White Rabbit from, Alice in Wonderland.

Alice: How long is forever?
White Rabbit: Sometimes, just one second.

The soul evolves and changes through time. Many souls are in unrest because they have not forgiven themselves, feel unworthy, deny that they are dead, or because they have not accepted the spiritual realities they are now experiencing due to those experiences being contrary to their religious dogmas. It is often the most "religious" that find the greatest trouble passing over. This is an everlasting "Hell". But eventually every soul will surrender, find peace, and enter the Light. Those who do enter the Light return to the Source of All, God, and are as rain drops returning to the sea. They will once again emanate from the Source as naturally as water vapor once more arises from the seas in the midday sun. In this, the Source (God), experiences all things (including himself) in innumerable ways. He desires to know and be known. And so through this He both knows and is known. He is the All.

You never explained what happened to you because you did not write like this a few years ago.

Praying for you.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is the SPIRIT of Elijah, not actually Elijah. The bible says it is appointed unto man once to die.

Luke 1:17 KJV And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Could one argue that your spirit is not actually an aspect of you? Would one argue that God's Spirit not actually God? Of course not. Let me lay this one down.

Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

God promised to send, "Elijah the prophet". Either God was true to his word and actually sent, "Elijah the prophet", or he lied. Did God send, "Elijah the prophet", as he promised? This alone will dictate how every other verse on this topic is to be properly interpreted.

The Scripture states that it is appointed unto every living man once to die. But what then? The judgment. And what then? This doesn't deny the possibility of reincarnation. Even those who embrace reincarnation believe that every man (reincarnated or not) must die, face a judgment of sorts, and perhaps even be born once more as a different person who is also appointed to die.

Again, it is a matter of interpretation.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not by being born as a baby and growing up.

They believe he will actually appear - the very same person. Fully grown and an adult like he left. Not born from a second womb and grow. Man, we can make the bible say anything if we take that reasoning you are displaying.

Exactly, and their notion was, and still is, error. Jesus corrected that notion when he explained the following.

Matthew 17:12-14
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus explained that Elias (Elijah) had already come, and yet they didn't know him, and executed him. This was contrary to popular Jewish thought. It is even contrary to current Jewish thought today. So, are we to believe that Elijah will return as a full grown man, or are we to believe that Elijah was indeed sent as John the Baptist (reincarnation) as Jesus states?

Luke 1:17 KJV And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Yes. The man John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elias because, as Jesus stated, "Elias is come", just as God promised to send, "Elijah the prophet", in Malachi. John came in the spirit and power of Elijah because he was Elijah. However, it should be noted, not even John was consciously aware of this, typical of those who have experienced reincarnation.

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

As you can see, not even John fully understood his identity. This is a great mystery that your tradition flat out ignores. John was indeed Elijah the prophet who had died hundreds of years earlier. However, he was not consciously aware of it. My friend, if that isn't stereotypical of reincarnation I don't know what is. Had John undergone a past life regression, he'd have become aware of who he was. But obviously we don't need a past life regression to see who John was, Jesus himself testifies that John was indeed Elijah. So, it is rather settled, even if it flies in the face of traditional orthodoxy.

And then you have this strange question from the disciples in relation to a blind man.

John 9:2
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Notice, the disciples wanted to know if this man sinned prior to his birth as a blind man, or if this man's malady was the result of his parent's sin. Now, many have tried and tried to dodge the clear implication of this question. Some have proposed that the disciples believed that it was possible to "sin" in the womb before birth. Some have proposed that perhaps the disciples thought it was possible to "sin" in Heaven before conception. Some have even proposed that perhaps the disciples thought that God could curse a man for sins known through foreknowledge. Given the issue with John the Baptist, I think it is rather reasonable to say that the disciples considered the possibility that this man was born blind on account of sins committed in a previous lifetime.

Then there are texts like these:

Revelation 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out:

What does it mean to go to and fro from God's temple in Heaven?

So while the Bible gives no developed theological teaching about reincarnation, it is possible to say that shadows of reincarnation's reality can be seen in the Bible. Again, it is a matter of interpretation.