Law was an impossible system to keep

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Excuse me elder, but could the carnal man do anything which God had prescribed to the Spiritual man?

The carnal man can and usually does perform a lot of actions that were prescribed for the spiritual man, such as prayer, fasting, alms-giving, and other "motions of religion", but the carnal man cannot be subject to God. There is somewhere he will be in rebellion against God.

The carnal man is a man whose will is directed by the flesh, by sin, by his own desires, rather than by the Spirit, by righteousness, by the will of God. Such carnal or fleshly people are often highly religious and may appear pious, but in reality they got it all wrong. Pharisees being a prime example.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Did you tape this?

Bro, could you speak more about what you posted?

Also pray for us we have a pretty big killer storm bearing down on us which looks none too friendly.

I have an entire series on the epistle to the Romans, chapter by chapter, on our utube page.

Saw about that storm, will be keeping y'all in prayer.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The carnal man can and usually does perform a lot of actions that were prescribed for the spiritual man, such as prayer, fasting, alms-giving, and other "motions of religion", but the carnal man cannot be subject to God. There is somewhere he will be in rebellion against God.

The carnal man is a man whose will is directed by the flesh, by sin, by his own desires, rather than by the Spirit, by righteousness, by the will of God. Such carnal or fleshly people are often highly religious and may appear pious, but in reality they got it all wrong. Pharisees being a prime example.

Excellent

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I have an entire series on the epistle to the Romans, chapter by chapter, on our utube page.

Saw about that storm, will be keeping y'all in prayer.

I have listened to the teaching on Romans.

Thank you

[mfblume]

How could unregenerate man keep law if we read...

Romans 7: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How could unregenerate man keep law if we read...

Romans 7: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Carnal man goes through the motions while his heart is far from God.
In all actuality the carnal man hates what he is doing and therefore can't wait until the service is over. He may draw nigh to God with his mouth, but his heart is far from God. He is a white washed sepulchre filled to the brim with rotting corpses. Psalm 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him; and their time of punishment would be forever."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Carnal man goes through the motions while his heart is far from God.
In all actuality the carnal man hates what he is doing and therefore can't wait until the service is over. He may draw nigh to God with his mouth, but his heart is far from God. He is a white washed sepulchre filled to the brim with rotting corpses. Psalm 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him; and their time of punishment would be forever."

Amen. And that's my point. Anyone unregenerate cannot rise above this level of carnality, and therefore cannot keep law. No one could be spiritual before the new covenant.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen. And that's my point. Anyone unregenerate cannot rise above this level of carnality, and therefore cannot keep law. No one could be spiritual before the new covenant.

Genesis 6:9 states that Noah was perfect "blameless" in his generation.

Genesis 17:1 has God commanding Abram to walk before Him blamelessly.

Job 1:1 also claims that Job was blameless and upright in God's sight.

Luke 1:6 states that Zechariah and Elizabeth blameless, righteous in God's eyes, and that is attested to them observing all the Lord's commands with His decrees blamelessly.

While all of the above were blameless they still had to believe in the Messianic hope. The law didn't grant them salvation, because they understood that the law was only carrying them to the schoolmaster. Once the schoolmaster appeared, and only then, would they get what they were searching for. Luke 2:29-32 "Now you are releasing your servant, Sovereign Lord, according to your word, in peace; For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples: a light for revelation of the Gentiles, and glory of Your people Israel." Simeon waited day and night, because he understood the Torah's promise Psalm 119:174.

Simeon like all the other remnant who came before him knew that the Law was good, if one used it legitimately. They understood like the Apostle Paul it was only a schoolmaster to lead one to the Master. Therefore once the Master came He, removed the flaming sword, and opened the doors to Eden

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Genesis 6:9 states that Noah was perfect "blameless" in his generation.

Genesis 17:1 has God commanding Abram to walk before Him blamelessly.

Job 1:1 also claims that Job was blameless and upright in God's sight.

Noah, Job and Abram were before Sinaitic Law. So, these examples of inability or ability to keep Law can';t really be applicable. And a command to Abram to walk blamelessly doesn't necessarily mean Abram could do so.

And of course all of this must be taken into consideration with what the New testament teaches. So, if carnal man cannot keep law because law is spiritual, I cannot see how it doesn't still stand that no one could keep law before the new covenant.

Luke 1:6 states that Zechariah and Elizabeth blameless, righteous in God's eyes, and that is attested to them observing all the Lord's commands with His decrees blamelessly.

By far that is the most impacting verse in relation to this issue. Bravo!

Now, we know they were not actually righteous by their obedience, since Law stated none are righteous, and it was written to Jews under law as these folks were under law. So we know there is no contradiction. Therefore, what is the answer? Paul stated law was ordained to life but he found it to be unto death. They were righteous in the eyes of God. Righteousness cannot come from lawkeeping.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In order for them to be righteous in His eyes there had to be some kind of consideration toward the then-future work of the cross. As I told Esaias, Acts 15:10 stated the fathers of Israel experienced something they could not bear. That could only be law. So how do we reconcile these passages? There must be some kind of reliance in the then-future work of the cross for this to fit the overall counsel of God in the bible.

While all of the above were blameless they still had to believe in the Messianic hope. The law didn't grant them salvation, because they understood that the law was only carrying them to the schoolmaster. Once the schoolmaster appeared, and only then, would they get what they were searching for. Luke 2:29-32 "Now you are releasing your servant, Sovereign Lord, according to your word, in peace; For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples: a light for revelation of the Gentiles, and glory of Your people Israel." Simeon waited day and night, because he understood the Torah's promise Psalm 119:174.

Simeon like all the other remnant who came before him knew that the Law was good, if one used it legitimately. They understood like the Apostle Paul it was only a schoolmaster to lead one to the Master. Therefore once the Master came He, removed the flaming sword, and opened the doors to Eden

Amen! Good stuff. So, now we must reconcile all of these words with what I've really been awaiting for. Paul's words that Law was ordained to life but he found it to death, and how does this fit with unregenerate man unable to keep a spiritual law?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Noah, Job and Abram were before Sinaitic Law. So, these examples of inability or ability to keep Law can';t really be applicable. And a command to Abram to walk blamelessly doesn't necessarily mean Abram could do so.

I understand, yet we do have a righteous God telling His follower to do something. This isn't a suggestion made by God, but a clear command. We can't really say that God was telling His follower to do something which God knew His follower would be unable to perform. That would then introduce other issues which now call God into question.

Originally Posted by mfblume

And of course all of this must be taken into consideration with what the New testament teaches. So, if carnal man cannot keep law because law is spiritual, I cannot see how it doesn't still stand that no one could keep law before the new covenant.

Psalm 15:2 David asks a question in a song, and answers that question with the words "those who lead blameless lives and do what is right, speaking the truth from sincere hearts." Again, these items were the schoolmaster taking the small immature child on his or her journey to the Cross. All needed the Lamb of God who really did take away the sin of the World, Judean and Roman. Some Judeans couldn't figure it out because they believed the only way for a Roman to partake in the Passover was for that Greek to become PHYSICALLY circumcised and keep all the traditions plus Torah. Yet, they were to be reminded in Romans 3 that all were under the same penalty. Romans 3:25 shows how Jesus is the the real Passover! Just like the lamb in Egypt where Israeli and proselyte both were saved by the the blood on the lintel. I also want to note that it was only elders who applied the blood to the doorpost Exodus 12:21-22. In the same way it is elders who baptize new converts in Jesus name. Oh, another thing, I would like to also qualify my statement concerning both Israeli and proselyte (converted Gentiles) being saved together, Exodus 12:38 states that other peoples or a mixed multitude came out from Egypt, also Exodus 12:46.

Originally Posted by mfblume

By far that is the most impacting verse in relation to this issue. Bravo!

Now, we know they were not actually righteous by their obedience, since Law stated none are righteous, and it was written to Jews under law as these folks were under law. So we know there is no contradiction. Therefore, what is the answer? Paul stated law was ordained to life but he found it to be unto death. They were righteous in the eyes of God. Righteousness cannot come from law keeping.

Again we have God giving commands in Deuteronomy 5:33 that person must practice all the degrees which the LORD God had ordered them. This also had a conclusion which the practitioner of God's degrees would then be rewarded. Rewarded how? That they might live and that all would be well with them. Also an insurance their days would be prolonged in the land which they were conquering. Now, again should we take this command from a righteous God to be fruitless words given to a group where 100% of the listeners would drop the watermelon and fail to do anything He instructs? God commands already knowing full well that what He is telling them to do can never be carried out by anyone? Not even His remnant? Which after all that is why they are the remnant because they were the only ones to even care about following Him.
Righteousness in the sight of God, is just that. God giving you the label instead of you taking that label. Zechariah and Elizabeth are said to be one, blameless, and two righteous in God's point of view. You see, it wasn't about a religious practice, but a desire, a love, which makes the religious practice a by product, or should I say a fruit? So, those who wanted to enter into the land and keep it, had to TRUST GOD. Zechariah had to TRUST GOD, Elizabeth had to TRUST GOD which produced righteousness at the time of the Cross.

Remember Abraham TRUSTED GOD and it was CREDITED to him righteousness because of his faith. Those who would enter into the land had to trust God through faith, like Joshua, and Caleb. Yet, even going into the land and staying there until death, really wasn't what they were wanting. But actually the Messianic promise of the Lamb of God who would finally take away their sins, and then the righteousness would be imputed. Philippians 3:9, 2 Corinthians 5:21, and the topper being Galatians 2:16!