It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, you are saying that being truly righteous is bad?

God doesn't want us to be righteous? That wasn't His original intention for mankind?

That's not how I understood the exchange.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Think about it... if Christ died to save sinners and justify the ungodly, it follows that being a sinner and ungodly is BAD. It also means that people OUGHT to have been righteous in the first place. God wanted righteousness, but we failed. God loves us, so He makes a way to reclaim us and make us holy and good.

Yep. Adam and Eve sinned and because of that, we needed a Savior. Our own righteous is not enough to save us. We cannot, on our own, be saved.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Therefore, if say Adam never sinned, you are saying that would be bad! And that God ought to have punished Adam for being obedient! Can you not see how that line of thinking makes no sense and contradicts everything the Bible teaches?

Again, not how I understood JD's post. What doesn't make sense is your post, which appears to claim that man is good enough without God. That man is able to save himself by his own righteousness.

That contradicts everything I've read in the Bible.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by n david

Yep. Adam and Eve sinned and because of that, we needed a Savior. Our own righteous is not enough to save us. We cannot, on our own, be saved.

So, we are guilty of Adam's sin? We are lost and sentenced to eternal death because Adam sinned? Look at what you said - "Adam and Eve sinned AND BECAUSE OF THAT we need a Saviour".

Did you repent of their sin? Are your actual sins irrelevant?

What doesn't make sense is your post, which appears to claim that man is good enough without God.

Where did I say that?

That man is able to save himself by his own righteousness.

Where did I say that? Saved from WHAT? The punishment due to SINNERS? A man who never sinned has nothing to be saved from. We all need to be saved. Ergo, we have all sinned. And no sinner - ONE WHO IS GUILTY OF SIN - can escape punishment UNLESS PARDONED BY THE LORD ON THE BASIS OF THE ATONEMENT.

That contradicts everything I've read in the Bible.

Have you ever read in scripture that God requires of anyone what they cannot actually do if they were willing?