More on Skirts

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's not true, that is just your perception. Also you haven't been to every UPCI or Apostolic church. So, you are limited only to the one who were associated with. Bad experiences send people from Baptist to Pentecost, from Pentecost to Baptist to the hodgepodge of the re-examiner church. Ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of Truth. Don't get me wrong, re-examining is a part of learning. Just don't think everyone draws the same conclusion you do. Also, gleaning from the heros of Protestant movement is re-examining. It is called shopping for answers. Which Jesus called the blind leading the blind.

Nah. Y'all really can not understand why people leave, it always gets reduced to 1)bitterness or 2)bad experience. It never truly dawns on y'all that maybe just maybe someone actually likes being pentecostal, enjoys the worship, the fellowship, the familiarity, but just simply leaves because they believe the Bible teaches something else. It always goes back to bitterness or bad experience. You are the second person to tell me that this week. The other, none other than DKB himself on a facebook thread about worship styles.

Let me make it plain. I don't dislike the UPC or UPCers. I am disappointed the UPC/greater oneness movement is not what I thought it was. I thought and believed for years it was the restoration of the apostles doctrine and practice, the true church on the earth, the channel God would use to bring endtime revival and the restoration of true Christianity. I believed all those things, I was not unhappy. I was not hurt. I was not mistreated, and I whole heartedly believed the doctrine.

There was no fishing for answers, no looking for a way out. It just happened over time as I studied God's Word that He lead me out.

It has little to nothing to do with protestant heros. You know the only protestants I had read before leaving the OP movement was William Barclays commentaries, who is a very liberal presbyterian, that I dont agree with on much dogma, but he is good for historical information. I read a book on The Sermon on the Mount by DA Carson, and I read several commentaries by Warren Weirsbe. Not a ton of "heroes" there, and not a lot of influence either. None of those guys are particularly focused on doctrine or say a ton that would be seen as an assault on pentecostalism. It wasn't the heros who moved me, it was the scripture. Particularly the NT, especially Romans, the Gospels, especially John, Galatians, Colossians, Ephesians, and 1 John.

I dont think I read a MacArthur book until 2010, either right before or after I left. It was called "Faith Works: The Gospel according to the apostles". It was a polemic against easy believism, not a theological treatise on salvation.

I've since read a few more books from MacArthur, who is one one my favorite authors, but only about 6 or 8 in total, and only his commentary on Romans.

Beside that, I've got a book of Jonathan Edwards sermons, only read about 60 pages of it. I've read parts of a few Charles Spurgeon sermond, but not much. (Those guys sermons go forever, it hard reading).

I've never read anything from John Calvin or Martin Luther except half of Luthers small catecism. I've got 2 books by John Owen, I've started one ( The mortification of sin) but never finished it, and havent even opened the other (the death of death in the death of Christ). I've never read a systematic theology, but did read most if ""bible doctrine" by wayne grudem, which is a summary of his systematic theology. Thats pretty much it, and all that is after leaving the oneness movement, not before.

I mostly read the scripture and commentaries, or books on church history.

My "re-examining" has been rooted in scripture. As usual, you are projecting things you really don't know anything about.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason B

Nah. Y'all really can not understand why people leave, it always gets reduced to 1)bitterness or 2)bad experience. It never truly dawns on y'all that maybe just maybe someone actually likes being pentecostal, enjoys the worship, the fellowship, the familiarity, but just simply leaves because they believe the Bible teaches something else. It always goes back to bitterness or bad experience. You are the second person to tell me that this week. The other, none other than DKB himself on a facebook thread about worship styles.

Let me make it plain. I don't dislike the UPC or UPCers. I am disappointed the UPC/greater oneness movement is not what I thought it was. I thought and believed for years it was the restoration of the apostles doctrine and practice, the true church on the earth, the channel God would use to bring endtime revival and the restoration of true Christianity. I believed all those things, I was not unhappy. I was not hurt. I was not mistreated, and I whole heartedly believed the doctrine.

There was no fishing for answers, no looking for a way out. It just happened over time as I studied God's Word that He lead me out.

It has little to nothing to do with protestant heros. You know the only protestants I had read before leaving the OP movement was William Barclays commentaries, who is a very liberal presbyterian, that I dont agree with on much dogma, but he is good for historical information. I read a book on The Sermon on the Mount by DA Carson, and I read several commentaries by Warren Weirsbe. Not a ton of "heroes" there, and not a lot of influence either. None of those guys are particularly focused on doctrine or say a ton that would be seen as an assault on pentecostalism. It wasn't the heros who moved me, it was the scripture. Particularly the NT, especially Romans, the Gospels, especially John, Galatians, Colossians, Ephesians, and 1 John.

I dont think I read a MacArthur book until 2010, either right before or after I left. It was called "Faith Works: The Gospel according to the apostles". It was a polemic against easy believism, not a theological treatise on salvation.

I've since read a few more books from MacArthur, who is one one my favorite authors, but only about 6 or 8 in total, and only his commentary on Romans.

Beside that, I've got a book of Jonathan Edwards sermons, only read about 60 pages of it. I've read parts of a few Charles Spurgeon sermond, but not much. (Those guys sermons go forever, it hard reading).

I've never read anything from John Calvin or Martin Luther except half of Luthers small catecism. I've got 2 books by John Owen, I've started one ( The mortification of sin) but never finished it, and havent even opened the other (the death of death in the death of Christ). I've never read a systematic theology, but did read most if ""bible doctrine" by wayne grudem, which is a summary of his systematic theology. Thats pretty much it, and all that is after leaving the oneness movement, not before.

I mostly read the scripture and commentaries, or books on church history.

My "re-examining" has been rooted in scripture. As usual, you are projecting things you really don't know anything about.

I totally understand why people leave. You had your run ins while you were in the Apostolic movement. You even posted your war story here. Let me make it plain for you. You read commentaries, and you read other books by other Christian groups. You were shopping for answers. Or you were in the Apostolic church for years? 10, 20, 30, 40? What's the number old salt? My question is this, which is the questions I ask all the other seekers? What on earth were you doing for all those long years in Pennycost. John MacArthur? Sweet Jesus!