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07-02-2017, 08:04 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
That's not the only take on the passage. Paul speaks first person in the present tense. It says what it means, and means what it says.
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Paul wasn't using himself as an example. Or else he is speaking a contradiction in Philippians 3:6
I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.
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"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-02-2017, 08:08 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Paul wasn't using himself as an example. Or else he is speaking a contradiction in Philippians 3:6
I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault. |
Past tense. "Obeyed". One must also consider that he's sharing a legalist perspective, but Romans bears out deeper ontological theology relating to salvation and our struggle with the flesh.
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07-02-2017, 08:11 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
Past tense. "Obeyed".
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Bro, are yo saying that Paul was blameless before his conversion?
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"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-02-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Bro, are yo saying that Paul was blameless before his conversion?
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I'm saying that before his conversion, Paul regarded himself as being so. Isn't that part of Paul's polemic?
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07-02-2017, 08:14 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
I'm saying that before his conversion, he regarded himself as being so, yes. Isn't that part of Paul's polemic?
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Was he telling the truth? Was he blameless concerning the law? Yes, or no?
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-02-2017, 08:19 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Was he telling the truth? Was he blameless concerning the law? Yes, or no?
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According to the Phariseeism he practiced, yes.
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07-02-2017, 08:26 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
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Originally Posted by Aquila
According to the Phariseeism he practiced, yes.
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According to the practice of Talmudic schools? 
Do you have any idea what THAT would entail?
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-02-2017, 08:13 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Aquila, I just thought to ask you this, what is the word in the Greek for the English word obeyed found in your ESV? Could you show me where that Greek word which is translated as "obeyed" is found in the verse?
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"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-02-2017, 08:18 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Aquila, I just thought to ask you this, what is the word in the Greek for the English word obeyed found in your ESV? Could you show me where that Greek word which is translated as "obeyed" is found in the verse?
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I'm no Greek scholar. And I'm on a cell phone because I'm out of town doing something you'd argue isn't true. Could you share your insight? I'll look deeper into it.
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07-02-2017, 08:23 PM
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Re: More on Skirts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
I'm no Greek scholar. And I'm on a cell phone because I'm out of town doing something you'd argue isn't true. Could you share your insight. I'll look deeper into it.
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Ok, go and look at the exact interliner of the verse. Paul is telling law keepers that he kept the law without fault. The ESV doesn't translate the verse, they interpret the verse. Interpretation isn't just words, but thoughts. So, the interpreter places his thoughts within the verse. Since we understand the Greek text, we can see the interpreter does a decent job. Yet, he isn't giving you a direct translation.
Again, no matter who you choose, Paul was a faultless law keeper. Therefore in Romans 7 he isn't using himself as an example. He is speaking about those who were trying to keep Torah, but through human discipline they were failing miserably.
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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