Do you think Revelations is enigmatic?

[Amanah]

I'm finding Revelation one of the most enigmatic books of the bible.

I'm wondering how many people feel the same and how many feel they have firm understanding of the book.

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'm finding Revelation one of the most enigmatic books of the bible.

I'm wondering how many people feel the same and how many feel they have firm understanding of the book.

Extremely unclear.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I have a question, if it was difficult to interpret for those living in the first century then why this warning? Revelation 22:18-19?

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I have a question, if it was difficult to interpret for those living in the first century then why this warning? Revelation 22:18-19?

I don't believe it was difficult for them in the first century. 2200 years later we can't relate to the writer? Maybe?

[Amanah]

everyone sees Rome as being the beast
* first century saints see Imperial Rome
* Reformation saints see The Roman Church
* most people today see a revived empire.

it seems like figuring this out is key.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

everyone sees Rome as being the beast
* first century saints see Imperial Rome
* Reformation saints see The Roman Church
* most people today see a revived empire.

it seems like figuring this out is key.

First century church was persecuted by the Judean religion they were once a part of. The Apostle Paul was protected by his status in Imperial Rome. Because he was by his name Paulos part of an Empirical Roman Patrician family as Yohanna Marcus was. Could be one of the reasons they were at odds with each other. Mystery Babylon had the blood of the prophets and the saints. We tend to see saints ONLY as church members. The saints here are OTs, not just NTs.

Keep in mind that the Reformation (like ex-Apostolic Pentecostals) had axes to grind. Reformation wanted to fit the Roman Catholic Church into the book of Revelation. You will find this throughout church history, any enemy of any group gets wedged into the book of Revelation. Obama lost his antichrist position and Donald Trump had to pick up the baton. Interpreting the book of Revelation through current events have been happening since the day one of Revelation's publishing.

People today? See it as the revived Roman Empire? You mean like Mussolini? People today wouldn't know what a revived Roman Empire would look like. Sir John Bagot Glubb's book Fate of Empires is a good explanations of any world empire. Nebuchadnezzar's image wasn't an outline of empires since Babylon. Because then the image is missing empires who rose and fell since Babylon. The empires of the image had one thing in common. They all held power over Judea through occupation. Until you get to feet which has the potters clay baked with Roman Iron. Only time we see that going on is when the religious Judeans threaten a Roman official with "If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar." Which is complete with the Judean priestcraft leadership proclamation of "We have no king but Caesar,"

You have to keep this in its Judaic confines, and stop dragging it over to Mom's apple pie, baseball, and Chevrolet. It was written to an ancient people for their situations, which they understood better then we. It was written to them, and it benefits us now.

The flaming sword has been removed and we have access to Eden.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

everyone sees Rome as being the beast
* first century saints see Imperial Rome
* Reformation saints see The Roman Church
* most people today see a revived empire.

it seems like figuring this out is key.

I believe that Revelation was written in a way that serves all three purposes. It gave faith and hope to the first century saints to truly did believe they were quite possibly living through the end times. But, they weren't. Throughout Christian history, after the rise of the Roman Catholic Church and the Holy Roman Empire, Revelation gave faith and hope to those precious saints suffering under Catholic persecution, and they too truly believed that they were seeing the end time upon them. But, they weren't. And today, it gives us faith and hope in light of increasing globalization and religious extremism and persecution around the globe. We too believe that we might very well be in the end times. However, we don't know. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. The unfolding of the Great Tribulation may very well be within our lifetimes. Or... it may be generations away. We don't know.

But the purpose of the Revelation is served. It will continue to give faith and hope to the church of Christ up until that very hour when Christ returns and subdues the kingdoms of this world and establishes His Kingdom.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that Revelation was written in a way that serves all three purposes. It gave faith and hope to the first century saints to truly did believe they were quite possibly living through the end times. But, they weren't. Throughout Christian history, after the rise of the Roman Catholic Church and the Holy Roman Empire, Revelation gave faith and hope to those precious saints suffering under Catholic persecution, and they too truly believed that they were seeing the end time upon them. But, they weren't. And today, it gives us faith and hope in light of increasing globalization and religious extremism and persecution around the globe. We too believe that we might very well be in the end times. However, we don't know. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. The unfolding of the Great Tribulation may very well be within our lifetimes. Or... it may be generations away. We don't know.

But the purpose of the Revelation is served. It will continue to give faith and hope to the church of Christ up until that very hour when Christ returns and subdues the kingdoms of this world and establishes His Kingdom.

Awesome!

Here's what churchanity teaches you. The book of the Revelation is a carrot on a stick. Everyone chasing their ecclesiastical tails, and therefore it's all up in the air for you. Imagine, a book which is to give a revelation of the love story of Christ and His bride has been reduced to a story concerning destruction?

So much in fact that the very word Apocalypse lost its meaning. It no longer means to reveal, but it means to people "today" as utter destruction. Well, we also live in a culture where gay no longer means cheerful. But means homosexual?

Good grief.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Awesome!

Here's what churchanity teaches you. The book of the Revelation is a carrot on a stick. Everyone before you chased their ecclesiastical tails, and therefore it's all up in the air for you. Imagine, a book which is to give a revelation of the love story of Christ and His bride has been reduced to a story concerning destruction?

So much in fact that the very word Apocalypse lost its meaning. It no longer means to reveal, but it means to people "today" as utter destruction. Well, we also live in a culture where gay no longer means cheerful. But means homosexual?

Good grief.

It's no different than looking backwards in time to an alleged fulfillment and drawing faith and hope in dire circumstances one might face today.

Futurism doesn't mean destruction to me. It means the days of this corrupt world are numbered and a glorious Kingdom will be established culminating in a glorious New Creation void of sin, sickness, aging, and death. And at this time we have the opportunity to turn to God and be a part of that Kingdom. It also means that Christ Himself will establish His Kingdom. There is no need to establish a theocracy on earth. We are but ambassadors telling the corrupt nations of this world to repent, for their days are numbered.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Amanah

everyone sees Rome as being the beast
* first century saints see Imperial Rome
* Reformation saints see The Roman Church
* most people today see a revived empire.

it seems like figuring this out is key.

Can the "beast" be the Roman Catholic Church and the Whore Babylon be America?