More On Beards

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

There's a quote I like: “We need to stop worrying about being culturally relevant and start being contextually real.”

What is relevant. Well, you posted the definition. Here's what stuck out to me: "closely connected" "related" "linked".

My question is why are we wanting to be "closely connected" "related" or "linked" to the world?

This isn't about Grandpa hyperventilating over air conditioning. This isn't pews vs chairs.

To me relevance is about becoming Christian-lite. It's basically another way of saying "seeker friendly."

The statistics prove the focus on being relevant is neither working nor really what people (including millennials) actually want.

They don't want the fog and lights. They don't want the skinny-jean wearing worship leader or pastor with a bushy beard, ripped jeans and t-shirt, barefoot, sitting on a stool talking about social justice. They don't care if church has a Starbucks or Higher Grounds, He Brews, Common Grounds, What Would Jesus Drink, etc. They don't care about the HD screens or the band or anything else.

They want something real. And relevance isn't real. People can see right through the fake. They know if you're real or not.

Stop trying to become closely connected to the world, stick to the Word and God will bring the increase.

All excellent points.

People want authenticity. Going out of the way to look authentic becomes... well... inauthentic. Contrived. Now, I don't mind a pastor with a beard, wearing jeans, and T-shirt or whatever. My last pastor was like that. But he was really like that. I don't mind a coffee station or even a breakfast nook if a church wants to provide that service, but it's not necessary. When I see a preacher "trying" to fit that image, it's just as corny to me as the suit and tie bit. In fact, some preachers are more "authentic" in a suit and tie. It's them. It's who they are. When you have to go out of your way to try to be "real"... you're not real. I've seen the fake in both traditional and "relevant" churches. I've also seen the authentic in each of them. I'll be honest, it's more about style and feel. If I'm uncomfortable, I don't want to be there. And it doesn't mean a church is bad or wrong or anything like that. I know great churches that are filled with awesome people, I don't go to them because it's not me. If being myself doesn't fit in, or could cause issues, I save all of us the trouble by not going. lol I'm surely not going to act like someone or something I'm not just to fit in. That wouldn't be fair to anyone either. Sometimes, it's the the music. Sometimes it is too "old-timey" or it's too "contemporary". Either the standards are such that I feel like I'd be fake to abide by them because I don't see them in Scripture... or the standards are so low, I feel they are neglecting common sense modesty.

This is one reason why I like house church. It's regular people, meeting to worship Jesus without any show. They are in the rough. They are as they are on any other day. It's more real. You're in the elder's house. You see his wife, kids, dog (or cat). You see the dirty dishes in the sink they didn't have time to wash before folks started showing up. And you see brothers and sisters step in to get 'em done and set up for the Lord's Supper (an actual meal followed by the blessing of the loaf and the cup). Elders share what God has put on their hearts. We discuss the passage in a discussion based setting. We allow questions, people to share perspectives, and we allow the Holy Spirit to guide the discussion to conclusion. Sometimes we have music, sometimes we don't. But we sing and worship. It's real basic, but it's real, and I love it.

When it comes to the fakeness of the relevancy movement and the big church production, I'm often reminded of this video. It's hilarious, but makes an excellent point.

[Esaias]

In the rush to "figure out how best to reach people" let's not forget God is in control of the building of His church. All the "relevancy" in the world is useless without Divine input, and with Divine input our methods become largely irrelevant. Just so long as we are "preaching the gospel to every creature" and are relying on the Spirit's help.

[Scott Pitta]

Culturally, it is very interesting. Many early Oneness ministers had facial hair. It was, as far as I can tell, a non issue to them.

When did it become a sin ? Is it a sin in every region of our country ? Is it a sin for Apostolics in other countries ?

I think it is a natural cover up

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

In the rush to "figure out how best to reach people" let's not forget God is in control of the building of His church. All the "relevancy" in the world is useless without Divine input, and with Divine input our methods become largely irrelevant. Just so long as we are "preaching the gospel to every creature" and are relying on the Spirit's help.

The Holy Spirit is all that's needed. There is the inward calling of the Spirit when God is drawing a person. The outer calling of the preached Gospel confirms and ignites that inner calling, and the spirit of a person is moved within them to draw near to God and obey the Gospel.

The Holy Spirit can also impart a Word of Knowledge regarding a single soul on a crowded street that God is drawing inwardly. In addition, a Word of Knowledge can disarm a soul who is resisting the Spirit and the inner calling.

The church should be otherworldly, supernatural in its mission.

Now, yes. Styles and the culture of the church can appeal to various demographics to provide a sense of belonging. But that's nothing, if the Spirit isn't drawing a soul, they won't come. And if they do, they won't stay.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

There's a quote I like: “We need to stop worrying about being culturally relevant and start being contextually real.”

What is relevant. Well, you posted the definition. Here's what stuck out to me: "closely connected" "related" "linked".

My question is why are we wanting to be "closely connected" "related" or "linked" to the world?

This isn't about Grandpa hyperventilating over air conditioning. This isn't pews vs chairs.

To me relevance is about becoming Christian-lite. It's basically another way of saying "seeker friendly."

The statistics prove the focus on being relevant is neither working nor really what people (including millennials) actually want.

They don't want the fog and lights. They don't want the skinny-jean wearing worship leader or pastor with a bushy beard, ripped jeans and t-shirt, barefoot, sitting on a stool talking about social justice. They don't care if church has a Starbucks or Higher Grounds, He Brews, Common Grounds, What Would Jesus Drink, etc. They don't care about the HD screens or the band or anything else.

They want something real. And relevance isn't real. People can see right through the fake. They know if you're real or not.

Stop trying to become closely connected to the world, stick to the Word and God will bring the increase.

Amen

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Culturally, it is very interesting. Many early Oneness ministers had facial hair. It was, as far as I can tell, a non issue to them.

When did it become a sin ? Is it a sin in every region of our country ? Is it a sin for Apostolics in other countries ?

I think it is a natural cover up

This is natural?

Pentecostals don't want to look like a devil man werewolf.

[UnTraditional]

I wrote a bit about this a bit ago. I had facial hair, and my avatar on here shows it. But, since God has done what He has done in my life, I looked around and saw the elders of my church, and saw their lives and ministry. As the Spirit led me, He began dealing with me on my own life, and yes, this included facial hair. While having a beard is not a sin, the reasoning behind it can be. I wore the beard and goatee because of rebellion, because I did not want to fit in with the norm. But, as I looked at my elders and saw my own life, yes, they are clean shaven, but they do things of a right spirit. So, last night, I shaved everything off.

What we do and why we do it is as important as all else. You can do something that is not a sin, and then have the wrong reasons for it. I am not saying everyone who has a beard does so for the wrong reasons, but I did. I saw my own life, and discerned ( I know many do not like that word) the why as well as the what. Maybe that should be more the focus, the reasoning, than just the act.

Anyways, my 2 cents worth, for whatever it is worth.

[aegsm76]

Thank you for being transparent.
This encourages me and my own struggles, this morning.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Thank you for being transparent.
This encourages me and my own struggles, this morning.

Just plug the norelco in and git 'er dun.

[Scott Pitta]

If Jesus Christ had misgivings about his facial hair, neither should we. The entire topic is ignored in the NT. I suppose there is a reason for that.

Major on the majors.