More On Beards

[returnman]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

Very good post!

I would have to agree with Evang on the wrecked individuals that verbalize shirt sleeve lengths and other trivial matters while living in a spiritual mess. Churches leave a lot of wreckage along the highway of life, oneness no exceptions. Another way to interpret this outspoken behavior over petty standards would be the cry for help out of the carnage surrounding their life left on the side of the road by some abusive individual that thought it better to cut off the member of the body for the good of the whole.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by returnman

I would have to agree with Evang on the wrecked individuals that verbalize shirt sleeve lengths and other trivial matters while living in a spiritual mess. Churches leave a lot of wreckage along the highway of life, oneness no exceptions. Another way to interpret this outspoken behavior over petty standards would be the cry for help out of the carnage surrounding their life left on the side of the road by some abusive individual that thought it better to cut off the member of the body for the good of the whole.

My point is this, while some individuals will harp against Conservative Apostolic churches which hold to standards of separation. All wanting to debate an issue while they openly stated that they are all upside down in their own religious experience. This always gets a raised eyebrow from the unchurched. It is like a guy in a topless bar, explaining Acts 2:38 to one of the dancers. While what he is saying is Bible truth, and she may or may not get anything out of it, he is still reprobate.

But, carnage from teaching standards? If taught properly it can be a blessing. But I rarely have anyone discuss this subject without bringing up the First Church of Dr Moreau. Where the pastor is some despot, who teaches Bible study with a whip and a chair. Listening to these stories one would think that some of those who left Conservative One God Apostolic movement was because they attended Gladiator School, instead of Sunday school. While I read these posts I often wonder what the other side has to say about the whole experience? Did the pastor actually burn the saints with cigarettes? All while the saints were tied in their pews. Was the pastor Leather Face from Texas Chainsaw Massacre? I wouldn't know, but I pray that no one has such an awful experience.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

My point is this, while some individuals will harp against Conservative Apostolic churches which hold to standards of separation. All wanting to debate an issue while they openly stated that they are all upside down in their own religious experience. This always gets a raised eyebrow from the unchurched. It is like a guy in a topless bar, explaining Acts 2:38 to one of the dancers. While what he is saying is Bible truth, and she may or may not get anything out of it, he is still reprobate.

But, carnage from teaching standards? If taught properly it can be a blessing. But I rarely have anyone discuss this subject without bringing up the First Church of Dr Moreau. Where the pastor is some despot, who teaches Bible study with a whip and a chair. Listening to these stories one would think that some of those who left Conservative One God Apostolic movement was because they attended Gladiator School, instead of Sunday school. While I read these posts I often wonder what the other side has to say about the whole experience? Did the pastor actually burn the saints with cigarettes? All while the saints were tied in their pews. Was the pastor Leather Face from Texas Chainsaw Massacre? I wouldn't know, but I pray that no one has such an awful experience.

One of Sr. Pastor Huss Shearer's favorite statements was "...you'll bust Hell wide open." He applied this to women wearing pants, cutting the hair, men in shorts, makeup, jewelry (he didn't even permit wedding bands), men wearing beards ("It's a spirit of rebellion!" was often said with this one), owning a television and early on he said it about the internet, but backed off of it as it became more and more widely used as a part of people's work. He'd pound that altar and weep over how people would go to Hell over these things.

Now, he was my first pastor. Believe it or not, though he was hard, he was also so very tender and kind to me. I loved him dearly. He was patient and made living by those standards inspiring. But the pastors I have had after his passing were cold, commanding, demanding adherence, instant compliance, with an iron fist. There is one exception. A pastor in Beavercreek teaches these standards not as "holiness standards" but as "Christian disciplines". He has a platform policy, but application of the standards is largely left upon the individual. So, you might see a rather conservative looking individual worshipping right next to someone who has a beard and his wife cut hair. He asks that women wear dresses and skirts to church, even if they occasionally wear them while at home or at work. His principles are very balanced, loving, and spiritual. If I returned to the UPCI, and occasionally I do think about it, his church would be the one I'd choose to go to.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

One of Sr. Pastor Huss Shearer's favorite statements was "...you'll bust Hell wide open." He applied this to women wearing pants, cutting the hair, men in shorts, makeup, jewelry (he didn't even permit wedding bands), men wearing beards ("It's a spirit of rebellion!" was often said with this one), owning a television and early on he said it about the internet, but backed off of it as it became more and more widely used as a part of people's work. He'd pound that altar and weep over how people would go to Hell over these things.

Now, he was my first pastor. Believe it or not, though he was hard, he was also so very tender and kind to me. I loved him dearly. He was patient and made living by those standards inspiring.



But the pastors I have had after his passing were cold, commanding, demanding adherence, instant compliance, with an iron fist. There is one exception. A pastor in Beavercreek teaches these standards not as "holiness standards" but as "Christian disciplines". He has a platform policy, but application of the standards is largely left upon the individual. So, you might see a rather conservative looking individual worshipping right next to someone who has a beard and his wife cut hair. He asks that women wear dresses and skirts to church, even if they occasionally wear them while at home or at work. His principles are very balanced, loving, and spiritual. If I returned to the UPCI, and occasionally I do think about it, his church would be the one I'd choose to go to.

Could you clarify something?

The guy asks women to wear dresses to church?

That would be the place you would attend if you returned to the UPC?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you clarify something?

The guy asks women to wear dresses to church?

That would be the place you would attend if you returned to the UPC?

Yes. I don't entirely agree with him on every point. But I know his heart is in the right place.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes. I don't entirely agree with him on every point. But I know his heart is in the right place.

You don't have a problem with a someone asking women to wear dresses to church?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You don't have a problem with a someone asking women to wear dresses to church?

No. Absolutely not.

What I have a problem with is someone telling a woman that she'll burn in Hell if she doesn't wear a dress, that her salvation is questionable if she doesn't wear a dress, or that she's not in good standing with the church if she doesn't wear a dress. I find that to be legalistic.

This pastor simply asks that women wear dresses because he believes that dresses (or skirts) are more modest than pants and that women should seek the highest degree of Christian modesty; especially if they attend corporate worship.

Most women honor his request, even if they prefer to wear pants at home and/or at work. Those who don't aren't treated badly, threatened with Hell, or berated in any way. You realize it is the pastor's request, it isn't treated like a biblical mandate. And it isn't about "holiness" either, it's he considers modesty a Christian discipline. Holiness is regarded as a disposition of one's heart, no matter what they're wearing.

He's a very loving and principled UPCI pastor.