Christmas is pagan

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I feel much the same way... no one knows when Christ was actually born, so any time is as good as any other to reflect on and contemplate the implications of the incarnation. The cultural practice of "Christmas" provides a historical context for this, and it allows for families to come together in love, generosity, and good will. It allows for a family reunion of sorts to break bread, share, and pass down family knowledge, traditions, and to see kids and introduce them to the family they too are a part of that they might not typically get to know. There is no harm in these things.

And as for many of the cultural traditions such as Christmas trees, wreaths, presents, Santa (St. Nicholas, bishop of Myra), Christmas cards, Yule logs, etc., are all so far removed from their "pagan" origins they are merely plastic cultural decorations and lights. With the nights being longer and the cold setting in, sometimes the lights can help bring some cheer.

Should we see any "spiritual" significance to these traditions? Should any of these traditions be regarded as "sacred"? No! They are merely cultural. What if someone feels like a plastic Christmas tree with lights and thin glass ornaments is of the devil? Well, since it is only cultural, it matters not if they wish to abstain from having a Christmas tree or from partaking in the festivities.

P.S.
Historical note. St. Nicholas was reportedly the Bishop of Myra, a city in ancient Turkey. It was a haven for Monarchians and Modalists who were influenced by Paul of Samosata. While Bishop Nicolas was reportedly present at the Nicene Council (Bishop 305), his name was later omitted from the final attendance roster at the end of the council. Some say it was because he physically struck Arius for denying that Jesus was God during the council's examination of the Arian heresy and was dismissed by the council. Others note that while Nicholas obviously believed that Jesus was God, he wasn't in agreement with the Trinitarian majority that had gained favor with the emperor and so excused himself from the proceedings. This would present the possibility that Nicholas was either a Modalist or a Monarchian himself. In Eutychius’ Arabic Origins of the Church Nicholas is listed as being of "Myrdan", which in Aramaic means, "Apostate". And so some scholars see this early Trinitarian reference to Nicholas as being, "Nicholas the Apostate", on account of what might have been his Modalistic beliefs. Many miracles were attributed to Nicholas' ministry, along with marked compassion for orphans and the poor. After Nicholas died, others continued to serve the poor by giving anonymous gifts in the name of Nicholas. Travelers to Myra were deeply moved at the compassion shown by the Christians in Myra who continued to give in secret in the name of Nicholas and sailors spread the practice to different shores, and thereby expanded the custom of giving anonymously in this Bishop's name. After many miracles and visions were attributed to Nicholas, even after his death, the church declared Nicholas a venerable Saint and established his feast day as December 6th (the day of his death). The feast was observed through anonymous gift giving in the name of Nicholas and extraordinary charity toward the poor to see them through the cold winter months that would follow. Having the feast of St. Nicholas on the 6th and the feast of Christ-Mass (Christmas) on December 25th proved problematic for pilgrims to observe, seeing the expense of extensive travel within a single month. When forced to choose, Christmas was deemed more holy and so most would only pilgrimage on Christmas, combining their the Feast of St. Nicholas observances with their Christmas observances. And so, St. Nicholas, gift giving, and charity towards the poor became integrated into Christmas. Many legends, miracles, and even blended myths eventually became associated with St. Nicholas and various local customs evolved to honor the saint. When those who observed the Feast of St. Nicholas came to the New World, their languages pronounced his name "Sinterklas" or "Sant Iklaus." This morphed into the name, "Santa Claus". Coke-a-Cola ran with this and published advertisements of St. Nicholas in his red pajamas getting up in the middle of the night to begin his visitations with a bottle of Coke-a-Cola. This image of St. Nicholas in red pajamas and his red pajama hat became immortalized in the American psyche and so the American concept of St. Nicholas became the image of him we know today.

My point? The tradition of "Santa Claus" is a distinctly "Christian tradition" of anonymous giving that was eventually incorporated into what we know as Christmas today.

This discussion has been hashed on here every year. I think Esaias is just to cheap to buy gifts!!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

This discussion has been hashed on here every year. I think Esaias is just to cheap to buy gifts!!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

This discussion has been hashed on here every year. I think Esaias is just to cheap to buy gifts!!

LOL.

I think he's sincere.

[Esaias]

It can certainly be difficult to abandon long held traditions and practices. When we became convicted years ago to separate ourselves from pagan customs, it was difficult at first. Peer pressure is an incredibly powerful thing. We had to listen to relatives scold us for denying our children the fun of Halloween and Christmas. We had professing Christians scold us for not wanting to honour Jesus' birth. We were mocked and reproached. It took some time to wean our family off of these things. But by the grace of God we were freed from these pagan attachments.

We found that, over time, as we maintained consistency, others came to understand that we simply weren't going to participate in them. They quit harassing us about it. They came to respect our stand, at least when they were around us. What people say behind your back is irrelevant, you have no control over that. And I have found that people who reproach you behind your back will do so no matter WHAT you do.

It is always difficult and uncomfortable to cease old habits and begin new ones. But with time and being steadfast, the new way becomes normal, and the old ways "wax old and fade away."

We're all learning, and we're all at different stages in our understanding. But God is calling us all to come out from among the world and its ways, and be SEPARATE. Let's follow God, and leave the devil worship behind. Serving the devil never got us anywhere anyway.

[JoeBandy]

I think I just heard a rooster crow three times!!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

I think I just heard a rooster crow three times!!

Hurry and repent!

[Aquila]

I'm Scott-Irish and we have a number of traditions that aren't "biblical". They are just a part of our cultural identity.

As long as people don't get all "religious" with the holidays, I don't mind the lights, decorations, traditions, etc. But they have to understand, if they get "religious" with it, I'll have to remind them that it is no more "spiritual" than the 4th of July. lol

[jediwill83]

Can anybody tell me what the Israelites named the Golden Calf?

No its not thread hijacking.

Its follows along the lines of God being against pagan practices.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Can anybody tell me what the Israelites named the Golden Calf?

No its not thread hijacking.

Its follows along the lines of God being against pagan practices.

Elohim, and YHVH (the LORD).

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Can anybody tell me what the Israelites named the Golden Calf?

No its not thread hijacking.

Its follows along the lines of God being against pagan practices.

Exodus 32:4-5 KJV And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. (5) And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

The calf was a representation of the elohim that had brought them up from Egypt and brought them to Sinai. A feast to YHVH was proclaimed for the morrow. Clearly, they worshipped the golden calf as YHVH Elohim.

Notice, they seemed to have the idea that YHVH was plural, and not singular/unipersonal. Hence, the insistence by Moses that "YHVH is ONE" (Deut 6:4).