Post trib doctrine = Christ terrorizes His bride

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Sean

That chart is not chronological order and is piece mealed together.

All things are a matter of interpretation. According to this Futurist position, you'll notice that the seals only affect a fourth of the earth. The Trumpets affect a third of the earth. The bowls affect the entire world. They are judgments of progressive scope and intensity. Which lends them to being sequential, and not overlapping, as many Futurists interpret them as being today.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

All things are a matter of interpretation. According to this Futurist position, you'll notice that the seals only affect a fourth of the earth. The Trumpets affect a third of the earth. The bowls affect the entire world. They are judgments of progressive scope and intensity. Which lends them to being sequential, and not overlapping, as many Futurists interpret them as being today.

The book of Revelation is not written in chronological order from chapter 6 on to begin with. Chapters 1-3 have nothing to do with chronology.

But your comments raise another point, that being the diversity of thought with the post-trib camp. As the chart depicts, some believe the tribulation (which begins at the Abomination of Desolation, half-way through the seven final years and is not a seven year tribulation) is actually cut short significantly and that the wrath mentioned in Matthew 24:29 actually takes several months to complete with the rapture happening before-hand. Personally, I do not see how that fits with Christ depicting the elect being gathered while these things are happening.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The book of Revelation is not written in chronological order from chapter 6 on to begin with. Chapters 1-3 have nothing to do with chronology.

But your comments raise another point, that being the diversity of thought with the post-trib camp. As the chart depicts, some believe the tribulation (which begins at the Abomination of Desolation, half-way through the seven final years and is not a seven year tribulation) is actually cut short significantly and that the wrath mentioned in Matthew 24:29 actually takes several months to complete with the rapture happening before-hand. Personally, I do not see how that fits with Christ depicting the elect being gathered while these things are happening.

Interesting point to ponder.

How can they not have anything to do with chronology? The seals open the book... once the book is opened, the angels with the 7 trumpets sound, and once the final angel has sounded his trumpet, the angels with the 7 bowls step forward.

I've always wondered why so many scholars assume that these events overlap. For example, how can an event in the seals (that only affects a fourth of the earth), be taking place as part of a trumpet judgment (that only affects a third of the earth), as part of a bowl judgment (that affects the entire world)?

I think the progression in the text is obvious... the judgments increase in both scope and intensity with each phase of judgment. The seals are a breaking forth of the judgments that are contained in the book, and they affect only a quarter of the world. Trumpets, are meant to warn the world that judgment is coming, and these only affect a third of the world. The bowl judgments... they are global and are poured out in full strength, without mixture.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Interesting point to ponder.

How can they not have anything to do with chronology? The seals open the book... once the book is opened, the angels with the 7 trumpets sound, and once the final angel has sounded his trumpet, the angels with the 7 bowls step forward.

I've always wondered why so many scholars assume that these events overlap. For example, how can an event in the seals (that only affects a fourth of the earth), be taking place as part of a trumpet judgment (that only affects a third of the earth), as part of a bowl judgment (that affects the entire world)?

I think the progression in the text is obvious... the judgments increase in both scope and intensity with each phase of judgment. The seals are a breaking forth of the judgments that are contained in the book, and they affect only a quarter of the world. Trumpets, are meant to warn the world that judgment is coming, and these only affect a third of the world. The bowl judgments... they are global and are poured out in full strength, without mixture.

Revelation 8 clearly shows Trumpets follow the Seals:

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Revelation 8 clearly shows Trumpets follow the Seals:

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

Amen, see, there is a chronological order in the presentation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Chapters 1-3 have nothing to do with chronology.

I'm not so quick to say that. I believe the order of things as chosen by the Holy Spirit inspiring the writer may very well be rather important. The 7 churches weren't just randomly chosen, their order is significant. To some, they might symbolize periods of church history, to others the progression towards apostasy, to others phases of a believer's life, etc., etc. Now, I don't profess to know for sure what they mean... but I can't help but believe that they mean something significant, and their order is important.