Apostoic worship??

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Thank you. I totally appreciate your honesty.

So, when you say heresy, only you can determine heresy. In your mind an Apostolic Church is heretical. Therefore any minister in an Apostolic church is heretical. Because you asked the question which would indicate that one cannot find an Apostolic church which does not contain some measure of heresy.

Now, that we got that all out of the way how do you suggest we all come to your salvation? That isn't me being my sarcastic self, I'm asking a very important question. Since we do have people on this forum that you know disagree with you on different levels. How can we be saved and come to the exact same knowledge as you? Like the Two Witness Prophets? The Man Child Ministry? How many people need to know and understand these two teachings? Again, I appreciate your honest answer you gave, would just like to know your beliefs on the rest.

Dom,

Note the boldened. I never at all said that. However if you took the things I said to mean that be assured I dont think an Apostolic Church or Apostolic minister is necessarily heretical.

I know a few that are not. Personally I think most ARE in foundation doctrine. Esaias was seemingly making a point that if a group teaches heretical doctrine their worship cannot be of God.

I responded if that be the case how many Apostolic Churches could he really worship with since according to his criteria they may be hard to find. I suspect that he may sing songs written by people HE considers as heretics.

While I believe the second coming doctrine IS foundational I dont believe the knowledge of every detail of it is.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Esaias was seemingly making a point that if a group teaches heretical doctrine their worship cannot be of God.

I responded if that be the case how many Apostolic Churches could he really worship with since according to his criteria they may be hard to find. I suspect that he may sing songs written by people HE considers as heretics.

You misunderstand what I am saying. You continue to equate worship with music or songs. My entire point has been:

1. Worship is not limited to music, or how we "feel" in response to music.

2. Worship is judged, by Jesus Christ, according to DOCTRINE, and not according to how we "feel".

I never said a heretic couldn't write a good song. Nor did I say a heretic couldn't write a good song that could be used by God's church as part of its worship. All things are ours, according to the apostle. Therefore, the church can make use of whatever is available, assuming the thing made use of is not in itself heretical, false, or evil, and assuming it would not be inexpedient or a stumbling block to others.

What I take issue with is the idea that heretics have a corner on the worship market. One can only think that if they have a grossly unbiblical view of what actual worship is.

So, just to be clear, to avoid any possibility of misunderstanding, here it is again:

The Bible does not describe worship as a euphoria brought about by The Most Awesomest Music Ever™. The apostles never taught that we must strive to create the Most Awesomest Worship Experiences through the use of Super Awesome Music. The Bible does not define worship in terms of how we feel, it does not grade or measure worship by musical terms or qualities, nor by merely emotional states and feelings, nor does it suggest that worship = music to begin with.

[Esaias]

Once again:

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. Worship is not limited to music, or how we "feel" in response to music.

2. Worship is judged, by Jesus Christ, according to DOCTRINE, and not according to how we "feel".

I never said a heretic couldn't write a good song. Nor did I say a heretic couldn't write a good song that could be used by God's church as part of its worship. All things are ours, according to the apostle. Therefore, the church can make use of whatever is available, assuming the thing made use of is not in itself heretical, false, or evil, and assuming it would not be inexpedient or a stumbling block to others.

What I take issue with is the idea that heretics have a corner on the worship market. One can only think that if they have a grossly unbiblical view of what actual worship is.

So, just to be clear, to avoid any possibility of misunderstanding, here it is again:

The Bible does not describe worship as a euphoria brought about by The Most Awesomest Music Ever™. The apostles never taught that we must strive to create the Most Awesomest Worship Experiences through the use of Super Awesome Music. The Bible does not define worship in terms of how we feel, it does not grade or measure worship by musical terms or qualities, nor by merely emotional states and feelings, nor does it suggest that worship = music to begin with.