"Beards are sin!" False doctrine?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. I'm only pointing out that it is a sin to show partially between brethren. Since a beard isn't a sin, like you said, such a standard unnecessarily divides the body, and makes brethren with facial hair second class Christians.

Unnessercery divides the body, like some preachers saying that if you don't have a beard you are effeminate.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Amen! And GOD created and designed the beard to be on a mans face. They are fighting against God!

Hey, if the elders and the church family are cool about wanting no beards then have at it. If the elders and the church family are cool with having beards have at it. 12 Tribe community you either have a beard or you are not in their club period. That's what they want, their members are willing and wanting to go along with the program. If I don't like it I can take my dollies and move down the road. No harm, and no foul. All this "divide" the Body stuff is a bunch of triple venti latte snowflakes and soft hands. If you walk into a church and the men all have beards and you aren't into it then take it on down the line. If you walk into a church and their clean shaven as a baby's hind end, wearing suits with black ties, white shirts, and ferragamo slippers, but that's not your cup of Joe Bandy, then time to go. 80,000 different denominations, churches, and schisms in this country alone so you have quite a selection to be the church of your choice on Sunday or Saturday.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Amen! And GOD created and designed the beard to be on a mans face. They are fighting against God!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Unnessercery divides the body, like some preachers saying that if you don't have a beard you are effeminate.

I agree. I remember chiding you a little about this, saying essentially the same thing. Then you taught me what gay bears were. I want to say for the record, I don't think that men without beards are effeminate. I will say that many, not all, do LOOK effeminate. Lol

Hey, if the elders and the church family are cool about wanting no beards then have at it. If the elders and the church family are cool with having beards have at it.

Yeah, if they're all cool with leveling unbiblical standards on men's shoulders, and lording over the body, with a standard that isn't biblical, and would disqualify Christ Himself from their prescious platforms, what does it matter? Right?

I guess actually preaching and teaching the Word isn't enough. We need the traditions of men, else we might become too much like Jesus. After all, He had a beard, didn't He?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree. I remember chiding you a little about this, saying essentially the same thing. Then you taught me what gay bears were. I want to say for the record, I don't think that men without beards are effeminate. I will say that many, not all, do LOOK effeminate. Lol

There you go, saying men without beards are effeminate.
You better watch out that there are no bears in your woods.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yeah, if they're all cool with leveling unbiblical standards on men's shoulders, and lording over the body, with a standard that isn't biblical, and would disqualify Christ Himself from their prescious platforms, what does it matter? Right?

I don't think you understand, the church "family" that would make up everyone going to the church, not just the preachers. So, who is lording?
See that is the point, everyone has no problem with what THEY are doing. You on the other hand as some caped crusader for ecclesiastical justice believe you are right. But, they don't care, they like all the men wearing beards, if you don't like it, and want to prove to them that they are a bunch of legalists then you can go find somewhere else to park your soapbox.

If the church FAMILY wants no beards on everyone then no one is lording over anyone.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I guess actually preaching and teaching the Word isn't enough. We need the traditions of men, else we might become too much like Jesus. After all, He had a beard, didn't He?

Good grief, then why aren't you having church in a fishing boat, or a field, or a garden.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

There you go, saying men without beards are effeminate.
You better watch out that there are no bears in your woods.

I'll never go camping again. Lol

I don't think you understand, the church "family" that would make up everyone going to the church, not just the preachers. So, who is lording?
See that is the point, everyone has no problem with what THEY are doing. You on the other hand as some caped crusader for ecclesiastical justice believe you are right. But, they don't care, they like all the men wearing beards, if you don't like it, and want to prove to them that they are a bunch of legalists then you can go find somewhere else to park your soapbox.

True. But we can be catalysts for change, where we are, if we have the courage.

If the church FAMILY wants no beards on everyone then no one is lording over anyone.

Yes. But there needs to be a voice in the wilderness denouncing such unbiblical garbage. We need to identify the error, and identify the false churches.

Good grief, then why aren't you having church in a fishing boat, or a field, or a garden.

Those places sound too close to the woods, that's why!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'll never go camping again. Lol

Especially in California.

Originally Posted by Aquila

True. But we can be catalysts for change, where we are, if we have the courage.

Who is the we? There is only the they, and they like what they are doing. They believe that all their men should sport beards. They have Bible, which has a huge amount of beard toting prophets, and apostles. Yet, you come along and want to disrupt what they are doing? Hasn't forums taught you anything? That people believe what they believe, and wanting to be the avenger just makes the GROUP turn a deaf ear. It isn't even because they are being unkind, they really like what is going on. They love the preacher, the preacher loves them. If you go hang out with them they are really cool people, who will love you. But when you tell them that the Bible doesn't make beards or non beards mandertory, they start telling you about Aaron's beard, Jesus' beard, did you have a beard when you got the Holy Ghost, and did you have your whiskers when you were baptized, and why do you trim your beard? Because the beard isn't supposed to be trimmed. Your voice shouting in the wilderness will go full horse before they stop what they are doing. If you don't like it, then it is time to shout in some other wilderness.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes. But there needs to be a voice in the wilderness denouncing such unbiblical garbage. We need to identify the error, and identify the false churches.

What happened to "when the student is ready the teacher will appear?"

Umbilical garbage? They don't believe so, they don't believe it's error, they don't see their church is false. 80,000 denominations, churches, and schisms. You think they are all on the same page?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Especially in California.

LOL

Who is the we? There is only the they, and they like what they are doing. They believe that all their men should sport beards. They have Bible, which has a huge amount of beard toting prophets, and apostles. Yet, you come along and want to disrupt what they are doing? Hasn't forums taught you anything? That people believe what they believe, and wanting to be the avenger just makes the GROUP turn a deaf ear. It isn't even because they are being unkind, they really like what is going on. They love the preacher, the preacher loves them. If you go hang out with them they are really cool people, who will love you. But when you tell them that the Bible doesn't make beards or non beards mandertory, they start telling you about Aaron's beard, Jesus' beard, did you have a beard when you got the Holy Ghost, and did you have your whiskers when you were baptized, and why do you trim your beard? Because the beard isn't supposed to be trimmed. Your voice shouting in the wilderness will go full horse before they stop what they are doing. If you don't like it, then it is time to shout in some other wilderness.

What happened to "when the student is ready the teacher will appear?"

Umbilical garbage? They don't believe so, they don't believe it's error, they don't see their church is false. 80,000 denominations, churches, and schisms. You think they are all on the same page?

Taking such a stand, being vocal about it, denouncing legalisms involving both shaving and required beards isn't so much to win over or effect those who believe in these false doctrines. It is to call attention to the error publically so that fewer embrace their notions without question, and to help bring reconciliation and healing to those whose lives, ministries, dreams, and passions were crushed by some legalistic pastor with a passion for or against something as truly meaningless as a beard.

Ministering in the rear of the flock is often the most rewarding of ministries. You see the sheep that were battered and broken by circumstance, who are failing to keep up. You see those who have given up. You see those who have wondered form the flock through temptation or frustration.

I know it seems so small... but I know grown men on this forum who have beards. And they would weep like babies with healing tears if they were apologized to for all the unnecessary and unbiblical rejection, slander, character assassination, and denunciations they've faced merely for wearing a beard.

When I started wearing a beard it wasn't out of rebellion. It was because Christina thought I looked more "distinguished" instead of so "baby faced". I've always had a baby face. The facial hair was a nice look. It also helped me see myself in a new light. After all the drama of family trauma, military trauma, church abuse, a divorce, financial ruin, etc. to see myself differently was kinda healing. I had weathered the storm. God carried me through. Life happened, and I survived. That old me, that old life, it's gone. New me. A new me who has fallen even more in love with Jesus than the old me.

Think about it, since I was from an ultra-conservative background, I had looked the same for decades. After all I had been through, I needed a change. I'm not saying everyone does. I'm saying, I did. Growing my beard out symbolically represented my letting go of so much pain. I was no longer the abused boy who was brutally beaten as child. I was no longer the crisp, pressed, and shaved soldier I had become as a young man. I was no longer the subjugated, trapped, and spiritually bound clean shaven ultra-con legalist. I was no longer the failure of a husband. The change helped me look into the mirror and see someone new. Someone fresh. Someone older. Someone that accepted the past and closed the book on it. A man with a new life.

Then, feeling I visited a local Apostolic church. One I hoped was more moderate based on what I had heard.

Do I really need to go into detail about what happened within 10 minutes of being there and seeing a couple people who knew me way back when? After dealing with the mind numbing teasing, whispering, and eventual harassment over my beard... I realized something. At what point do I refuse to allow them to own me?

Some say, "But it's just a beard." No it isn't. It's far bigger than that. I'm reminded of a story...

2 Samuel 23:11-12 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 And next to him was Shammah, the son of Agee the Hararite. The Philistines gathered together at Lehi, where there was a plot of ground full of lentils, and the men fled from the Philistines. 12 But he took his stand in the midst of the plot and defended it and struck down the Philistines, and the Lord worked a great victory.

Here, a man took a stand. He'd not be pushed around any more. Yes, it was only a plot of land with a pea patch. Sure, many might say, "Why risk your life Shammah? It's only a pea patch!" They were right. It was only a pea patch. But it was... his pea patch. And when something is yours and you have very little else... no matter how seemingly insignificant it might seem. It's worth fighting and dying for.

I know that it's only a beard. But... it is my beard. And I refuse to surrender to the bullying, slander, character assassination, and pressure to become subjugated to the unbiblical standard of overreaching, and spiritually abusive, human authority.

And if having something as small an issue as a beard makes me an outcast... if having a beard makes my church reject me... if having a beard makes them treat me like a second class citizen in the church... then it isn't me who has the big problem with this little ol' beard. It's... them.

Sometimes you have to take a stand and defend your pea patch.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Taking such a stand, being vocal about it, denouncing legalisms involving both shaving and required beards isn't so much to win over or effect those who believe in these false doctrines. It is to call attention to the error publically so that fewer embrace their notions without question, and to help bring reconciliation and healing to those whose lives, ministries, dreams, and passions were crushed by some legalistic pastor with a passion for or against something as truly meaningless as a beard.

Bro, these brothers have Bible for their beard wearing, they believe it is a part of manliness. They believe the beard marks maturity, also that gray marks eldership (as old ) so no dying the hair. Beards are untrimmed, but hair on the top of the head remains short as high and tight. The rest of your above quote is a bit dramatic so get your T levels checked. Saints embrace their notions without question? Let me ask you a question? Do you read what I post? Did you read and UNDERSTAND what I posted to you. Bro, they have a Bible, the people in the Bible talk about bearded people. Jesus is described as having a beard, and it being torn out of His cheek. Aaron has an oily long beard. Also they notice that the men when they start coming of age naturally grow a beard? Bro, What are these people accepting without question? Another thing, you want to help bring reconciliation and healing to those whose lives, ministries, dreams, and passions were crushed by some legalistic pastor with a passion for or against something as truly meaningless as a beard. Again, you didn't get it, what I posted was not about religious basket cases who were unknowingly duped into the Unification Church. These people knew FULL WELL what they were getting themselves into. They were all of a sudden have the beard teaching sprung on them. They sure didn't catch a beating from a pulpit how they better start growing their beard, or else. I can't stress this stuff enough, you know, whether you like it or not, there are people in Pentecost who understand their standards of separation. You know what else? They really don't care what you think about them. They aren't legalists, because it isn't Mosaic law keeping, they do it because they understand it, and it is going to make them any more saved, but it is the fruit of their salvation. You want to debate that? Go right ahead, but they have their arguments also against what you are doing.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ministering in the rear of the flock is often the most rewarding of ministries.

You mean a parking lot prophet? Or the disgruntled who wants to lead from the pews? Who wants to liberate the people and tell them how their elders are not only wrong about beards, but are trying to manipulate them? How the ministry doesn't love them, how the elders are really putting everyone under spiritual abuse, and that you really are the one with the golden keys to freedom? Bro, that only works with saints who are struggling, but not over standards of dress. They have personal issues, that the SJW who is trying to sow tares among the wheat, have zero clues about. You might get them out of the so called legalist church, but what then? You going to sign the papers of adoption? Start your own church? It sadly is a snowball effect, because while you thought you were bringing them sweet cane of liberty, their issues concerning standards of dress, and attire was the very least of their issues. After a while (of you adopting them) find out that wearing a beard, long sleeves,long overalls didn't bother them one bit. But now you got what you wanted, a disciple. No, Chris, the adage is still true, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear." If the soil isn't made ready by JESUS you are going to be hitting nothing more than stumps and rocks.

Originally Posted by Aquila

You see the sheep that were battered and broken by circumstance, who are failing to keep up. You see those who have given up. You see those who have wondered form the flock through temptation or frustration.

You know, the above starts to sound like some mantra, which gets repeated over, and over again. Like a Mormon Bicycle Missionary repeating, "The Book of Mormon is True and Joseph Smith is a Prophet." What you posted above is the chief reason to not take people from other churches. Had a Baptist who wanted to come to our church, I told him no, stay in his church and make it right. He had a fallen out with the elders, not over doctrine, or book, chapter, and verse, but over personal reasons. I told him you don't even know what we believe. No, you need to straighten out your relationships. Because taking that brother, would of just caused problems, mainly for him and his family.
Sometimes people forget we are on a forum, and this is where we spit and whittle, but this isn't church. taking the SJW show on the road has major consequences. People get pulled out of churches and then you reject them because you don't have the time to care and feed them. They end up out in the cold, with their children.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I know it seems so small... but I know grown men on this forum who have beards. And they would weep like babies with healing tears if they were apologized to for all the unnecessary and unbiblical rejection, slander, character assassination, and denunciations they've faced merely for wearing a beard.

Bro, I'm real sorry, I wasn't raised in church. I was raised around some hard guys. Apologies weren't handed out. My moto is don't tell me your sorry, show me your sorry. That's all, we are supposed to be men, we are supposed to be the hunter gatherers. Shedding tears, I have shed my share, but I don't need an apology from my brother, or my other. People know what they are doing. But, back to the meat of my original post. THE PEOPLE LIKE WHAT THEY ARE DOING MAN! Yo u don't like it move on, and let someone else sit in the pew. No hard feelings, these people want their men in their church to wear beards. I was clean shaven, they wished for me to be and believe as they. I had a beard ever since I hit puberty, facial hair started to grow. My dad always had a fu manchu (not the bull) but the moustache. By the time I met brother Dan , I wasn't going to grow a beard again, and I didn't see the beard as mandertory, not even a hint. They believe what they believe. Was there anyone huddled in the fetal position over this teaching? Wanting Lois to write an article on her spiritual abuse website concerning their woes? NO! They like it, they actually want it, they see it in the Bible, they feel that it is natural for the man to grow the facial hair to whatever length it wants to grow. The main thing I'm getting at, is that I was told all this from jump street. Therefore I make a decision whether or not I want to fly the united skies with them. You see, if I would of joined them with the thoughts of changing them, then that's my problem. I the big dummy. They already believe what they believe. I don't join to teach their young people over at the Sunday buffet, or grab a struggling couple to shed my rays of light upon them. If I had disagreements I took it to the elders, and without any of their people around. Because it is pretty hard trying to remove a size 12 Red Wing boot out of your rear end. Decent and in ministerial order. So, these people, LIKE, LOVE, what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Aquila

When I started wearing a beard it wasn't out of rebellion. It was because Christina thought I looked more "distinguished" instead of so "baby faced". I've always had a baby face.

Please honestly, no offense, but that's because your fat, and you have a fat face. Try a Paleo diet. You will shred, and shed your "baby fat?"

Originally Posted by Aquila

The facial hair was a nice look.

Yeah, homeless guys look so bella.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

True. But we can be catalysts for change, where we are, if we have the courage.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

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Are you too afraid to look at your leadership and tell them, "Hey, this beard thing isn't Bible. Why don't we get back to the book?"

If you love and respect your leadership, you're obligated to speak up when they are wrong. Good leaders and good followers need one another.