Are All Oneness Christians Apostolic By Default?

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

They both have more hope of salvation than the so-called Apostolic who has cast away their convictions for holiness.

The meth addict, upon salvation will have a heart pliable for holiness and the holy living Trinitarian Pentecostal lives a life that suggests that God really is at work in their lives.

Why do you assume they cast anything away? That is, that they consciously believed something--say, they had a conviction about uncut hair--but then quit teaching it. That sort of thing sounds much more sinister than what is likely the truth: they just didn't ever find the argument for uncut hair compelling.

Besides 1 Cor 11, in your opinion what other passages teach uncut hair? Not long hair, but explicitly uncut.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Costeon

Why do you assume they cast anything away? That is, that they consciously believed something--say, they had a conviction about uncut hair--but then quit teaching it. That sort of thing sounds much more sinister than what is likely the truth: they just didn't ever find the argument for uncut hair compelling.

Besides 1 Cor 11, in your opinion what other passages teach uncut hair? Not long hair, but explicitly uncut.

That's basically what I said. They could come from a church that says the KJV is clear enough, you don't have to study the original language. We believe the KJV translation to be clear enough. Which you can't even see this clear enough unless you get in the original language.

I think this kind of thing is the outcome of something like that, and we should see the dangers that lie within that sort of teaching. I do believe if people know of the teaching and are just in open rebellion to it, it could be a salvational issue. But otherwise, I don't believe anything of the sort. For its God who is the judge of the thoughts and the intents of the heart. For you can be right in doctrine and walk sprightly before Him, and your heart be not perfect before Him. We see that all throughout the book of Kings and Chronicles.

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

That's basically what I said. They could come from a church that says the KJV is clear enough, you don't have to study the original language. We believe the KJV translation to be clear enough. Which you can't even see this clear enough unless you get in the original language.

I think this kind of thing is the outcome of something like that, and we should see the dangers that lie within that sort of teaching. I do believe if people know of the teaching and are just in open rebellion to it, it could be a salvational issue. But otherwise, I don't believe anything of the sort. For its God who is the judge of the thoughts and the intents of the heart. For you can be right in doctrine and walk sprightly before Him, and your heart be not perfect before Him. We see that all throughout the book of Kings and Chronicles.

Well said, God is indeed the judge. On the issue of uncut hair in particular I am inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they just are not convinced that this passage demands uncut hair. It is not that they see it plainly in this passage but don't teach it lest they lose people, etc.

And you point out one of the reasons for this willingness to give people the benefit of the doubt: it is unclear in the KJV and other modern versions. Of course many would argue it is unclear in the Greek as well.) Now this should give us pause. If there is ambiguity in this passage--and I don't think it can be denied since good hearted people study the matter and disagree over the meaning--we might want to treat people kindly over this. We might want to treat people kindly in general. :-)

The reason I asked Bucky, and feel free to respond yourself, to list verses besides 1 Cor 11 explicitly about uncut hair is that in general it seems people base their teaching on this one passage alone, and that is generally not a sound hermeneutical move.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Costeon

Well said, God is indeed the judge. On the issue of uncut hair in particular I am inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they just are not convinced that this passage demands uncut hair. It is not that they see it plainly in this passage but don't teach it lest they lose people, etc.

And you point out one of the reasons for this willingness to give people the benefit of the doubt: it is unclear in the KJV and other modern versions. Of course many would argue it is unclear in the Greek as well.) Now this should give us pause. If there is ambiguity in this passage--and I don't think it can be denied since good hearted people study the matter and disagree over the meaning--we might want to treat people kindly over this. We might want to treat people kindly in general. :-)

The reason I asked Bucky, and feel free to respond yourself, to list verses besides 1 Cor 11 explicitly about uncut hair is that in general it seems people base their teaching on this one passage alone, and that is generally not a sound hermeneutical move.

Well this word "komaō" is only used in 1 Corinthians 11,nowhere else.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Costeon

Why do you assume they cast anything away? That is, that they consciously believed something--say, they had a conviction about uncut hair--but then quit teaching it. That sort of thing sounds much more sinister than what is likely the truth: they just didn't ever find the argument for uncut hair compelling.

Besides 1 Cor 11, in your opinion what other passages teach uncut hair? Not long hair, but explicitly uncut.

What other passages teach that you are to be as completely mature as the Father? Matthew 5:48