A Handmaids Tale

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're right. However, there are principles that can be gleaned from the Jubilee and agrarian laws of the OT.

First - Nothing is truly ours, all things belong to God.
Second - We are only stewards of all that we have, and God's desire is that we properly distribute our wealth to ensure that none are lacking in the basics as it relates to living in our society.
Third - Interest (usury) is a sin in that it tends to only increase the burden on those who were already burdened to need a loan.
Fourth - Extended indebtedness isn't God's will. God would favor releasing all debts, servitudes, and contracts every 7 years.

I'm sure more principles could be considered, but those are the first to come to mind. Biblically speaking, one does business and acquires wealth not to serve self, but to provide for others. And so rather it be the poor tithe or a tax to fund food stamps, the government isn't taking what belongs to an individual and giving it to another. The government (God's ordained agent of both civil and social justice) is managing steward ship of God's provision to ensure that none are destitute. Of course, if one believes this, it is the one who is saying, "Wait, this is mine, all mine, no one else's.", who is a thief, not the one collecting the poor tithe or the welfare tax, for it is their sacred duty to do so. This might explain some of the statements made by church fathers down through the centuries. For example,

"The rich man argues, Whom am I wronging so long as I keep what is my own? Tell me, just what things are your own? Where did you get them to make them an inseparable feature of your life? If every one were to take for himself simply what sufficed for his use, and left what was over and above to the man in want, there would be no distinction of rich and poor. Were you not born naked? Shall you not return naked to the earth? Whence, then, the goods you now possess? If you ascribe them to fate, you are godless, neither recognizing the Creator nor being grateful to the giver. But you acknowledge they are from God. Tell us then the reason why you received them. Is God unfair in the unequal distribution of the good things of life? Why is it that you are rich and that another is in need? Isn't it wholly that you may win the reward of kindness and of faithful stewardship, and that he may be honored with the great prize of patience? Now after seizing all things in your insatiable greed, and thus shutting out others, do you really think you are wronging no man? Who is the man of greed? He that is not content with a sufficiency. Who is the thief? He who seized everybody's goods. What are you but a greedy miser? What are you but a thief? The things you received to dispense to others, these you make your own. The man who steals a coat from another is called a thief. Is he who can clothe a naked man and will not, worthy of any other name? The bread, which you keep in the store, is the hungry man's bread. The cloak, which you guard in the chest, belongs to the naked man. The sandals rotting in your house belong to him who goes barefoot. The silver you hide away belongs to the needy. Thus it is that you are wronging as many men as you might help if you chose." ~ St. Basil

I won't bore you with many tedious quotes like this. But, I will say, imagine if men who thought like this were making social policy in the United States. I don't think they'd be warmly greeted by many on the right end of the spectrum today. Or, just imagine if we cultivated this perspective in churches today. Christianity would be an entirely different animal as it relates to it's sense of social advocacy.



I would have to agree with you.

There you go again.
Just can't help yourself.
Many, many studies show that the LEFT gives very little to the poor.
It is the "evil" conservative right-wingers who open up their pocket books to the poor.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

There you go again.
Just can't help yourself.
Many, many studies show that the LEFT gives very little to the poor.
It is the "evil" conservative right-wingers who open up their pocket books to the poor.

I don't fault conservatives on their willingness to give to charity. I think conservatives deserve much praise in that department.

I fault them on failing to see the social obligations of a nation that go beyond mere charity as described by God Himself in His Law given to Israel.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't fault conservatives on their willingness to give to charity. I think conservatives deserve much praise in that department.

I fault them on failing to see the social obligations of a nation that go beyond mere charity as described by God Himself in His Law given to Israel.

In other words, you want the government to tax all workers to give handouts to others who either can't or won't handle their own affairs.

The tithe law which benefitted the poor etc was not a free cash subsidy. It was a meal that was eaten to which the poor etc were invited.

Socialism is unbiblical, ungodly, and a sign of divine wrath.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

In other words, you want the government to tax all workers to give handouts to others who either can't or won't handle their own affairs.

The tithe law which benefitted the poor etc was not a free cash subsidy. It was a meal that was eaten to which the poor etc were invited.

Socialism is unbiblical, ungodly, and a sign of divine wrath.

You're right, agrarian socialism is different from modern socialism. My point was that in principle... God held the entire nation, beginning with the ruler, responsible for basic provisions for the poor, widows, strangers, and needy.

And the notion that you or I 100% own anything is a doctrine of devils. All things are God's. And we are only entrusted with them to be good stewards, and that responsibility was also expected of those who governed the nation.

The poor tithe was an agrarian land tax to care for the poor.

You know, for the average American making roughly $50,000 a year, only $16 a year is given to fund the food stamp program? Yet, over $600 is spent to fund corporate subsidies for corporations already recording record profits.

But social programs for the poor are breaking our budgets. I gotcha.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're right, agrarian socialism is different from modern socialism. My point was that in principle... God held the entire nation, beginning with the ruler, responsible for basic provisions for the poor, widows, strangers, and needy.

And the notion that you or I 100% own anything is a doctrine of devils. All things are God's. And we are only entrusted with them to be good stewards, and that responsibility was also expected of those who governed the nation.

The poor tithe was an agrarian land tax to care for the poor.

Wrong thread. As pointed out in the other thread, the tithe for the poor was not a government tax sent to the state for redistribution as they saw fit.

You should hit the books more, and google and the DNC websites a bit less.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Wrong thread. As pointed out in the other thread, the tithe for the poor was not a government tax sent to the state for redistribution as they saw fit.

You should hit the books more, and google and the DNC websites a bit less.

You might find this interesting.

Is Judaism Socialist or Capitalist?
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Capitalist.htm

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You might find this interesting.

Is Judaism Socialist or Capitalist?
https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Capitalist.htm

Its CHABAD!!!

Good God from Zion!