Saved Without A Pastor??

1ofthechosen · #1 06-19-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I have looked up some statistics. I think it is interesting.

Out of the five-fold ministries, which are mentioned the most in the Bible?

Which are mentioned the least?

I'm going to break it down into OT and NT to provide a little bit of context for they who think it matters (which would include me). I am also going to search the base word, not all variations, just to make it easy.

Eph.4
[11] And he gave some, apostle;s and some, prophet;s and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Apostle

OT- 0

NT- 83

Prophet

OT- 327

NT- 163

Evangelist

OT- 0

NT- 3

Teacher

OT- 7

NT- 13

Pastor

OT- 8

NT- 1

It appears that prophet takes the award for most mentions, and . . .

Pastors take the award for the least mentioned of the five-fold ministries by a VERY large margin. In fact if pastor was mentioned one fewer time in the NT, it would not have been mentioned at all. The Evangelist (as in Benincasa) gets mentioned three times as many as the pastor in the NT!?

Does it seem to anyone that we are out of balance here?

Anyway, I thought it was interesting.

The Apostle is written in place of the Pastors because they were the Bishops to these churches. The letters and the book of Acts is all we have. You act like there is some detailed account of the church besides the book of Acts.

So since we don't live in the time of the Apostles this of course would go to a Pastor. Tell me how many Prophets you know? Who are they and do you submit to them? So do you submit to the Evangelist? Because you alluded the true question.

Tithesmeister · #2 06-19-2018, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

The Apostle is written in place of the Pastors because they were the Bishops to these churches. The letters and the book of Acts is all we have. You act like there is some detailed account of the church besides the book of Acts.

So since we don't live in the time of the Apostles this of course would go to a Pastor. Tell me how many Prophets you know? Who are they and do you submit to them? So do you submit to the Evangelist? Because you alluded the true question.

Please quote scripture?

I'm waiting . . .

It seems that the author of Ephesians repeated himself by putting apostles and pastors in the same verse? Is that what you're saying?

How about the prophets? Are there no more prophets?

Maybe we should take a break. I think your blood pressure is getting elevated.

1ofthechosen · #3 06-19-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Please quote scripture?

I'm waiting . . .

It seems that the author of Ephesians repeated himself by putting apostles and pastors in the same verse? Is that what you're saying?

How about the prophets? Are there no more prophets?

Maybe we should take a break. I think your blood pressure is getting elevated.

Theres definitely prophets but as I've seen it it can be anybody. I've met people who say they are in the office of a prophet, but a true one is rare. So anybody with the Holy Ghost can be used to prophesy, teach, evangelize, but only one can be the Pastor or the Apostle in the church.

Just the question stands which one are you submissive too? Or do you disregard Hebrews 13:17 altogether?

houston · #4 06-19-2018, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Theres definitely prophets but as I've seen it it can be anybody. I've met people who say they are in the office of a prophet, but a true one is rare. So anybody with the Holy Ghost can be used to prophesy, teach, evangelize, but only one can be the Pastor or the Apostle in the church.

Just the question stands which one are you submissive too? Or do you disregard Hebrews 13:17 altogether?

There are no Apostles today.

1ofthechosen · #5 06-19-2018, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

There are no Apostles today.

That's what I was saying so then what's left? Only the pastor unless you are going to submit yourself to the Evangelist? But thanks for saying that, this guy is going to want scripture for it though... But case closed..

Tithesmeister · #6 06-19-2018, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

That's what I was saying so then what's left? Only the pastor unless you are going to submit yourself to the Evangelist? But thanks for saying that, this guy is going to want scripture for it though... But case closed..

I want scripture. Don’t get me wrong, I’m interested in your opinion, but when it comes to doctrine it’s line upon line, precept upon precept. Hey we’ve all got opinions!

1ofthechosen · #7 06-19-2018, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I want scripture. Don’t get me wrong, I’m interested in your opinion, but when it comes to doctrine it’s line upon line, precept upon precept. Hey we’ve all got opinions!

Ok in context of Hebrews 13:17 you present Ephesians 4:11-12. Now tell me who you are going to submit to if not this Pastor and use scripture to prove it...