Saved Without A Pastor?? - Page 27

Tithesmeister · #**261** 06-21-2018, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

You did say that. You kept insisting it was a. Angelic being.

It HAS to be an angelic being. How can it be an angel and not be angelic?

Evang.Benincasa · #**262** 06-21-2018, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

It HAS to be an angelic being. How can it be an angel and not be angelic?

That is a good point.

Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flaming fire. Does that mean all ministers combustible?

Tithesmeister · #**263** 06-21-2018, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

But elder can also be a interchangeable word for Pastor or Apostle as we see in 1 Peter 5 because they all were shepherds to the flock.

We agree on something. I think I'll retire.

Of course an elder is a broad term. A pastor or apostle is more specific. So all pastors, apostles, teachers, evangelists, and prophets would be elders. All elders would probably or perhaps always perform the duties of one of these offices, sometimes more than one, but probably never all of them. This is how I understand it today.

Kind of like all priests in the OT were Levites, but not all Levites were priests.

Apostolic1ness · #**264** 06-21-2018, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That is a good point.

Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flaming fire. Does that mean all ministers combustible?

Was John writing to an angel or a person?

1ofthechosen · #**265** 06-21-2018, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I would note that the scripture states in rev 2 that the "angel" and "church" in each city is singular. So I do wonder if there was not an individual that was the leader of the churches in each city. Just wondering, and if so what would be the "title" of the individual.

What does the word Pastor mean look it up in Ephesians 4:11. It is self explanatory. Thats why great detail is not given.

1ofthechosen · #**266** 06-21-2018, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I said what?

Copy and paste please while I look for your apology for saying I said something that I didn't say.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister View Post
"I am not sure. The most probable answer is that they are heavenly beings, however, if I said that I know, I would be guilty of doing what I have said you're doing. Making a doctrine based on insufficient information. I don't want to do that."

The angel in the passages of the 7 churches are a Messenger of the church a person.

1ofthechosen · #**267** 06-21-2018, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Was John writing to an angel or a person?

Absolutely a person why would Jesus come to John a man to write a letter to a angelic being? Thats asinine and once again Chapter 2:18-24 proves it.

Apostolic1ness · #**268** 06-21-2018, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Absolutely a person why would Jesus come to John a man to write a letter to a angelic being? Thats asinine and once again Chapter 2:18-24 proves it.

Right, some of the wording in the post had me wondering if someone believed the angel of the churches was an actual angel.

Tithesmeister · #**269** 06-21-2018, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Was John writing to an angel or a person?

Definitely angels. It is possible that the angels were people? In chapter one it says he was writing to the seven churches of Asia. In chapter two he gets more specific and begins writing to angels of individual churches.

It is worth mentioning that the first verse of Revelation refers to an angel, and I’m pretty comfortable saying it is not talking about a human being.

If he starts writing to angels that are human messengers on chapter two, he certainly does not make it obvious that he did so.

Revelation begins with an angel that is not human. (IMO) It mentions seven Spirits that are not human (hence the capital s). Then, in chapter two mentions seven more angels. There is no distinction made between the first verse in Revelation and the angels in chapter two. I think it’s a HUGE stretch to think that chapter two switches to human angels without any warning that we are leaving a Spiritual realm and entering the physical.

Another thought, why wasn’t John referred to as an angel. If the qualifier for angel was simply a messenger, I think we all could agree that he qualified.

1ofthechosen · #**270** 06-21-2018, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Elder covers all five titles.

But there could definitely be more than 1 Evangelist. But Pastor or "poimen" which is defined as "the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church, of the overseers of the Christian assemblies."

This denotes a hardship in definition there's no need to explain greater.