What's the difference?

[Aquila]

I find it interesting that most don't seem to realize how much of their doctrine regarding alcohol was developed as part of the mid 1800's Temperance movement, not specifically in response to the Bible. This anti-alcohol social movement eventually succeeded in gaining enough political influence to pass and implement the bloody and crime ridden nightmare of Prohibition in 1920. Prohibition was eventually ended in 1933 to help stabilize society by using the free market to put the black market for alcohol out of business.

It was during the Temperance movement that preachers began condemning all alcohol as sin and ignoring all texts indicating otherwise. However, their understanding of wine doesn't agree with Scripture or even the interpretations of most Christians down through history, including the Greek speaking Greek Orthodox churches. These fundamentalists argued that "oinos" (wine) strictly applied only to unfermented grape juice. However, this is far from reality. The Greek term "oinos" is actually a general term for wine (fermented or unfermented). For example, in Ephesians it is used by Paul for fermented wine:

"Be not drunk with wine [oinos]" (Ephesians 5:18)

Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I find it interesting that most don't seem to realize how much of their doctrine regarding alcohol was developed as part of the mid 1800's Temperance movement, not specifically in response to the Bible. This anti-alcohol social movement eventually succeeded in gaining enough political influence to pass and implement the bloody and crime ridden nightmare of Prohibition in 1920. Prohibition was eventually ended in 1933 to help stabilize society by using the free market to put the black market for alcohol out of business.

It was during the Temperance movement that preachers began condemning all alcohol as sin and ignoring all texts indicating otherwise. However, their understanding of wine doesn't agree with Scripture or even the interpretations of most Christians down through history, including the Greek speaking Greek Orthodox churches. These fundamentalists argued that "oinos" (wine) strictly applied only to unfermented grape juice. However, this is far from reality. The Greek term "oinos" is actually a general term for wine (fermented or unfermented). For example, in Ephesians it is used by Paul for fermented wine:

"Be not drunk with wine [oinos]" (Ephesians 5:18)

Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.

I really doubt any one of us will convince the rest of us to change the way we think about alcohol consumption.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I really doubt any one of us will convince the rest of us to change the way we think about alcohol consumption.

That's the wisest thing said throughout this whole argument . I agree.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I find it interesting that most don't seem to realize how much of their doctrine regarding alcohol was developed as part of the mid 1800's Temperance movement, not specifically in response to the Bible. This anti-alcohol social movement eventually succeeded in gaining enough political influence to pass and implement the bloody and crime ridden nightmare of Prohibition in 1920. Prohibition was eventually ended in 1933 to help stabilize society by using the free market to put the black market for alcohol out of business.

It was during the Temperance movement that preachers began condemning all alcohol as sin and ignoring all texts indicating otherwise. However, their understanding of wine doesn't agree with Scripture or even the interpretations of most Christians down through history, including the Greek speaking Greek Orthodox churches. These fundamentalists argued that "oinos" (wine) strictly applied only to unfermented grape juice. However, this is far from reality. The Greek term "oinos" is actually a general term for wine (fermented or unfermented). For example, in Ephesians it is used by Paul for fermented wine:

"Be not drunk with wine [oinos]" (Ephesians 5:18)

Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.

Jesus turning the water to wine was 10% about the wine at the wedding. But that wine is the universal type of transformation, and He was showing that He was the transformation all in Himself.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I find it interesting that most don't seem to realize how much of their doctrine regarding alcohol was developed as part of the mid 1800's Temperance movement, not specifically in response to the Bible. This anti-alcohol social movement eventually succeeded in gaining enough political influence to pass and implement the bloody and crime ridden nightmare of Prohibition in 1920. Prohibition was eventually ended in 1933 to help stabilize society by using the free market to put the black market for alcohol out of business.

It was during the Temperance movement that preachers began condemning all alcohol as sin and ignoring all texts indicating otherwise. However, their understanding of wine doesn't agree with Scripture or even the interpretations of most Christians down through history, including the Greek speaking Greek Orthodox churches. These fundamentalists argued that "oinos" (wine) strictly applied only to unfermented grape juice. However, this is far from reality. The Greek term "oinos" is actually a general term for wine (fermented or unfermented). For example, in Ephesians it is used by Paul for fermented wine:

"Be not drunk with wine [oinos]" (Ephesians 5:18)

Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.

Please post the source link when copying/pasting from another website. Also should put in quotation marks to show it is a quote from another person.

[berkeley]

he was passing that off as his own opinion. Lol. Where else has he done that?

Originally Posted by n david

Please post the source link when copying/pasting from another website.

[n david]

Originally Posted by berkeley

he was passing that off as his own opinion. Lol. Where else has he done that?

Not sure about the first two paragraphs, but the last paragraph was word for word from GotQuestions.org.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine.html

"""Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.""""

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by n david

Not sure about the first two paragraphs, but the last paragraph was word for word from GotQuestions.org.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine.html

"""Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.""""

Lol got him!!!
He was trying to"wax elephant" again, while copying and pasting...