What's the difference?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Words matter. Your posts show you support the consumption of alcohol. Part of the definition of "promote" is "support."

I have only stood by the truth that the Scripture supports moderation in the way of alcoholic beverages.

Irrefutable facts? You posted videos from YouTube. Also, the way you have posted about CBD and MM, including the videos, have made it out to be some wonder cure.

And, I'll say it again... it's no wonder cure. But I will say this. Imagine your child having 17 or more seizures a day. You have to be at the ready because she has stopped breathing on several occasions. You've had her prayed for, but as of yet, you're still waiting on your miracle. You've tried prescription medications and they don't help. Willing to try anything, so you try MM. And to your disbelief... the seizures stop. They begin returning once the MM has cleared her system. So, you manage her symptoms with a daily dosage or a dose every other day. The doctor notes that her brain scans look far more normal than before. She's now sleeping through the night. She's now more alert and playing with other kids. Where she wasn't thriving, now her development is advancing.

Is that a wonder cure? No. But those things mean the world to that parent.

You do bad all by yourself. I'm just saying.

Yeah. I tend to say what I think no matter what others think. I'm not always right. And my views aren't always popular. But, I'm no lapdog. I'll tell you honestly what I think and why. I'm not afraid to buck against stupid traditions and challenge outdated molds. That's just me. So, I admit that it is rather easy to take my words and make them mean something I never intended to say. But when that happens, the onus is on the one twisting my words. It only proves how dishonest they are.

Very few and very far between. Well, the subject is often focused on the false teachers. So, I tend to say more about them in light of the topic. But please, don't think that I lump all pastors together. I don't. I promise that to you.

Does this Pastor prohibit beards on the platform?

He doesn't "prohibit" beards on the platform. He does voice his vision for the image he desires the church to have. And for the most part, I've not seen anyone sporting beards on the platform.

Does he "teach traditions of men as doctrine?"

Nope. He admits that it is his preference. If you asked him, "Am I in sin over my beard?", he'd assure you that it isn't.

You see, he owns his position. He doesn't try to hide behind some silly game of biblical gymnastics to try to threaten Hell upon anyone who might disagree with him. And for the most part, there aren't beards on the platform (like that even matters), and some men wear beards in the congregation. I think he's a good man.

So, no. His traditional vision of a clean appearance isn't taught as a "doctrine". He just shares his opinion. And for the most part, people respect that. Go figure. Honesty, ownership, and respect. That's something ya don't see everyday. lol

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And, I'll say it again... it's no wonder cure. But I will say this. Imagine your child having 17 or more seizures a day. You have to be at the ready because she has stopped breathing on several occasions. You've had her prayed for, but as of yet, you're still waiting on your miracle. You've tried prescription medications and they don't help. Willing to try anything, so you try MM. And to your disbelief... the seizures stop. They begin returning once the MM has cleared her system. So, you manage her symptoms with a daily dosage or a dose every other day. The doctor notes that her brain scans look far more normal than before. She's now sleeping through the night. She's now more alert and playing with other kids. Where she wasn't thriving, now her development is advancing.

How about imagine that it is just another drug, in a more pure from. Just imagine that Big Pharma is using you to broadcast their fables. Just imagine.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Is that a wonder cure? No. But those things mean the world to that parent.

What you refuse to take into consideration is that we have had marijuana for a long time. Other drugs which have been around just as long have been used in the medical field. Yet, you are now hearing these stories not because this drug is any better than any other. But because it is all propaganda to legalize just another substance. Read Brave New World, it is being lived out right in front of you. These drugs will only help the elite do as they ver well please. While they step over our bodies.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yeah. I tend to say what I think no matter what others think. I'm not always right. And my views aren't always popular. But, I'm no lapdog. I'll tell you honestly what I think and why. I'm not afraid to buck against stupid traditions and challenge outdated molds. That's just me. So, I admit that it is rather easy to take my words and make them mean something I never intended to say. But when that happens, the onus is on the one twisting my words. It only proves how dishonest they are.

Listen the reason why they are unpopular is because they don't work. You keep beating your tin drum and we have already been there. It doesn't work, we prove it over and over, and you keep giving us the same old story.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Very few and very far between. Well, the subject is often focused on the false teachers. So, I tend to say more about them in light of the topic. But please, don't think that I lump all pastors together. I don't. I promise that to you.

Well, if we are getting honesty going here, then you can admit that this forum is known for lynch the pastor. I have never seen so many one sided stories concerning the ministry in my life. Also critiques by some who have never led or pastored a church. It gets kinda old reading the same old stupidity when it comes to the ministry.

Originally Posted by Aquila

He doesn't "prohibit" beards on the platform. He does voice his vision for the image he desires the church to have. And for the most part, I've not seen anyone sporting beards on the platform.

Because the majority of what he wants is no beards.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Nope. He admits that it is his preference. If you asked him, "Am I in sin over my beard?", he'd assure you that it isn't.

You see, he owns his position. He doesn't try to hide behind some silly game of biblical gymnastics to try to threaten Hell upon anyone who might disagree with him. And for the most part, there aren't beards on the platform (like that even matters), and some men wear beards in the congregation. I think he's a good man.

No beards on the platform because that is what he wants.

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, no. His traditional vision of a clean appearance isn't taught as a "doctrine". He just shares his opinion.

Share opinion is what he would prefer from the group.

Originally Posted by Aquila

And for the most part, people respect that.

Because they are in agreement and they love him.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Go figure. Honesty, ownership, and respect. That's something ya don't see everyday. lol

Especially on forums.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How about imagine that it is just another drug, in a more pure from. Just imagine that Big Pharma is using you to broadcast their fables. Just imagine.

Big Pharma is actually opposed to legalization of MM.

What you refuse to take into consideration is that we have had marijuana for a long time. Other drugs which have been around just as long have been used in the medical field. Yet, you are now hearing these stories not because this drug is any better than any other. But because it is all propaganda to legalize just another substance. Read Brave New World, it is being lived out right in front of you. These drugs will only help the elite do as they ver well please. While they step over our bodies.

The elite want them to remain illegal. It helps fuel the private prison industry, gain funding for police departments, locks people into having to rely on prescription meds produced by Big Pharma.

They certainly don't want you growing your own medicine. That would bring far too much... freedom.

Listen the reason why they are unpopular is because they don't work. You keep beating your tin drum and we have already been there. It doesn't work, we prove it over and over, and you keep giving us the same old story.

Not only do they not work, but the side effects are just as bad or worse than the symptoms they take the medications to treat.

Well, if we are getting honesty going here, then you can admit that this forum is known for lynch the pastor. I have never seen so many one sided stories concerning the ministry in my life. Also critiques by some who have never led or pastored a church. It gets kinda old reading the same old stupidity when it comes to the ministry.

Yes, I agree. Pastors do get roasted around here. But if you pay close attention to what is being said, nothing being said would even apply to loving pastors who are grounded in the Word. Any pastor who is not grounded in the Word is just another idol shepherd. Roast 'em.

Because the majority of what he wants is no beards.

No beards on the platform because that is what he wants.

And as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires. What I love about him is that he owns it. He has never tried to argue that the Bible is against beards or even that the Bible gives him authority to mandate that men shave or go to Hell. He's a good man.

Share opinion is what he would prefer from the group.

Yep. And everyone is in the know. No booming unbiblical threats are issued from some puny man behind a curtain.

Because they are in agreement and they love him.

Amen.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires.

Well, this is interesting.

Here's an excerpt of a post I made a few months ago:

Originally Posted by n david

Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story.

You took issue with that statement and proceeded to wax elephant about how wrong I was for saying a Pastor was within his role to (I'll use your word, since you like it more) "request" men shave.

Here was your response back then:

Originally Posted by Aquila

You just made the case that Apostolic pastors don't have to teach a way of life grounded in Scripture.

So which is this, Aquila? Is this you "playing the devil's advocate?" Or is this you being "multifaceted?"

Because what you just posted is a complete turnaround from what you slammed my Pastor and others over a few months ago.

Then: NO right or role to request anything other than what is expressly written in the Bible. "Man's tradition," and all that stuff.

Now: "As a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires."

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Well, this is interesting.

Here's an excerpt of a post I made a few months ago:



You took issue with that statement and proceeded to wax elephant about how wrong I was for saying a Pastor was within his role to (I'll use your word, since you like it more) "request" men shave.

Here was your response back then:



So which is this, Aquila? Is this you "playing the devil's advocate?" Or is this you being "multifaceted?"

Because what you just posted is a complete turnaround from what you slammed my Pastor and others over a few months ago.

Then: NO right or role to request anything other than what is expressly written in the Bible. "Man's tradition," and all that stuff.

Now: "As a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires."

That's a fair question.

I don't want to wax to radical, nor do I want to support that pastors can just legislate Heaven or Hell edicts from the pulpit.

Technically, a pastor can do anything they wish to do no matter who agrees or not. Those who wish to abide by any pastor's position, whatever it may be, will stay and serve in that church. Let me say that I personally do not support every position or approach a pastor might take.

Let's look at this as a gem with multiple facets. Some I don't agree with, some I do, and others I might tolerate if I feel it is approached ethically.

1.) Personally, I'm absolutely against pastors creating extra-biblical standards and proclaiming that it is a matter of Heaven or Hell. I see that as going way beyond the bounds of Scripture. This creates a "mini-pope" that has the power and authority to absolutely control a saint's life down to the very color of panty hose or sleeve length. I find this to be excessive and unbiblical control.

2.) I don't support pastors who would enforce a "platform standard", refusing anyone with a beard or who violates his opinion from serving on the platform. Why? Because it creates two classes of saints, when we are to be of equal value and service in the Kingdom. It unnecessarily divides the body without any biblical necessity to do so. If a man is born again and sanctified in the pew with a beard, then he's clearly saved and sanctified enough to serve on the platform with a beard.

3.) I have no issue with a pastor voicing his personal opinions or preferences, while allowing the saints to freely choose to honor those opinions or preferences or not. This pastor that I mentioned has stated that his preference is a ministry that is clean shaven. However, he doesn't prohibit men with beards from ever being on the platform. Nor does he condemn to Hell anyone who has a different preference. Out of love, the vast majority embrace his vision. But he will not deny the platform or condemn to Hell anyone who disagrees. This, I can support.

I guess when it comes to pastoral preferences, my support is given or denied based on how the pastor approaches it. Does he approach it in a forceful authoritarian manner, or as a gentle request without creating division or any repercussion if another is of a different opinion.

So, it's a fine line. The attitude and spirit of the pastor goes a long way with me.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

That's a fair question.

I don't want to wax to radical, nor do I want to support that pastors can just legislate Heaven or Hell edicts from the pulpit.

Technically, a pastor can do anything they wish to do no matter who agrees or not. Those who wish to abide by any pastor's position, whatever it may be, will stay and serve in that church. Let me say that I personally do not support every position or approach a pastor might take.

Let's look at this as a gem with multiple facets. Some I don't agree with, some I do, and others I might tolerate if I feel it is approached ethically.

1.) Personally, I'm absolutely against pastors creating extra-biblical standards and proclaiming that it is a matter of Heaven or Hell. I see that as going way beyond the bounds of Scripture. This creates a "mini-pope" that has the power and authority to absolutely control a saint's life down to the very color of panty hose or sleeve length. I find this to be excessive and unbiblical control.

2.) I don't support pastors who would enforce a "platform standard", refusing anyone with a beard or who violates his opinion from serving on the platform. Why? Because it creates two classes of saints, when we are to be of equal value and service in the Kingdom. It unnecessarily divides the body without any biblical necessity to do so. If a man is born again and sanctified in the pew with a beard, then he's clearly saved and sanctified enough to serve on the platform with a beard.

3.) I have no issue with a pastor voicing his personal opinions or preferences, while allowing the saints to freely choose to honor those opinions or preferences or not. This pastor that I mentioned has stated that his preference is a ministry that is clean shaven. However, he doesn't prohibit men with beards from ever being on the platform. Nor does he condemn to Hell anyone who has a different preference. Out of love, the vast majority embrace his vision. But he will not deny the platform or condemn to Hell anyone who disagrees. This, I can support.

I guess when it comes to pastoral preferences, my support is given or denied based on how the pastor approaches it. Does he approach it in a forceful authoritarian manner, or as a gentle request without creating division or any repercussion if another is of a different opinion.

So, it's a fine line. The attitude and spirit of the pastor goes a long way with me.

You said he has allowed his brother and guest speakers with beards. You also said "he requests that the regular team on the platform be clean shaven" and "he requests that those who serve on the platform be clean shaven."

What would happen if one of the regular congregant men who isn't related and isn't a guest had a beard and wanted to serve on the platform? Because you said this Pastor has a vision for "his" ministry and that includes men being clean shaven.

I could see how that may not apply to siblings or guests occasionally serving on the platform. I just don't believe, given what you have claimed, this Pastor would allow his vision of clean shaven men be marred by beards every service.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

You said he has allowed his brother and guest speakers with beards. You also said "he requests that the regular team on the platform be clean shaven" and "he requests that those who serve on the platform be clean shaven."

What would happen if one of the regular congregant men who isn't related and isn't a guest had a beard and wanted to serve on the platform? Because you said this Pastor has a vision for "his" ministry and that includes men being clean shaven.

I could see how that may not apply to siblings or guests occasionally serving on the platform. I just don't believe, given what you have claimed, this Pastor would allow his vision of clean shaven men be marred by beards every service.

He'd be quite the hypocrite if he allowed bearded guests and family on the platform but required his platform team to be shaven, wouldn't he?

All he does is let his request be known. He doesn't impost any penalty on one for not fully embracing his request. I've known a man on the praise team there who wore a 5 O' clock shadow. He eventually shaved it, but not because he was forced to.

For the most part, people respect the pastor's wishes. He's confident enough in his ministry that he doesn't have to threaten Hell, or boot non-compliant people off the platform.

He voices his preference and lets it rest.

I've often wondered if it were a political move. He's a part of a major organization. He can say that he teaches being clean shaven, but he avoids being caught up in unbiblical prohibitions, edicts, and condemning people to Hell over it. He voices his preference and leaves it alone. It's that simple. lol

[n david]

Since all you're doing now is pointing back to this post as your excuse for flip flopping and tripping over your own feet, let's break it down by comparing what I posted a few months ago (which you condemned and waxed the elephant against) to what you recently posted:

My post from March of this year:
"""Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story."""

Your post from a few days ago:
"""He requests that the regular team on the platform be clean shaven."
"""As he puts it, he has a vision regarding the look and feel of his ministry."""
"""So, he requests that those who serve on the platform be clean shaven."""
"""as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires."""

Originally Posted by Aquila

1.) Personally, I'm absolutely against pastors creating extra-biblical standards and proclaiming that it is a matter of Heaven or Hell. I see that as going way beyond the bounds of Scripture. This creates a "mini-pope" that has the power and authority to absolutely control a saint's life down to the very color of panty hose or sleeve length. I find this to be excessive and unbiblical control.

As stated back in March, my Pastor doesn't believe it's a heaven/hell issue. Nor does he believe it's a sin for men to grow a beard. He simply "requests" that men who serve on the platform be clean shaven.

Originally Posted by Aquila

2.) I don't support pastors who would enforce a "platform standard", refusing anyone with a beard or who violates his opinion from serving on the platform. Why? Because it creates two classes of saints, when we are to be of equal value and service in the Kingdom. It unnecessarily divides the body without any biblical necessity to do so. If a man is born again and sanctified in the pew with a beard, then he's clearly saved and sanctified enough to serve on the platform with a beard.

Other than his brother and guests who might occasionally preach, you state this Pastor requests men who serve on the platform be clean shaven.

Are there any men who are members of that church who have a beard and serve on the platform during every service. I'm going to bet the answer is no.

There's a reason for this. Contrary to what you're trying to claim about this Pastor, he really doesn't like beards or want them on the platform. His vision of clean shaven men proves this. Now, he tolerates the brother and occasional guest with a beard, but I would bet the bank he wouldn't allow a bearded man to serve on the platform each and every service.

This Pastor has a platform standard for the "regular people." He has a vision of clean shaven men and requests those serving on the platform (excluding occasional visits from the brother and guests) to be clean shaven.

Originally Posted by Aquila

3.) I have no issue with a pastor voicing his personal opinions or preferences, while allowing the saints to freely choose to honor those opinions or preferences or not. This pastor that I mentioned has stated that his preference is a ministry that is clean shaven. However, he doesn't prohibit men with beards from ever being on the platform. Nor does he condemn to Hell anyone who has a different preference. Out of love, the vast majority embrace his vision. But he will not deny the platform or condemn to Hell anyone who disagrees. This, I can support.

Same as I posted above.

I'd like to know if there are any regular members who are bearded and serve on the platform each service. I would bet there isn't. He tolerates the occasional beard on the platform, but don't be naive, he has a platform standard.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I guess when it comes to pastoral preferences, my support is given or denied based on how the pastor approaches it. Does he approach it in a forceful authoritarian manner, or as a gentle request without creating division or any repercussion if another is of a different opinion.

So, it's a fine line. The attitude and spirit of the pastor goes a long way with me.

But here's the deal, even if the Pastor requests the regular men be clean shaven, as I posted back in March, at that time you were completely against it.

Now suddenly you have a bunch of personalities and faces and did a 180.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Since all you're doing now is pointing back to this post as your excuse for flip flopping and tripping over your own feet, let's break it down by comparing what I posted a few months ago (which you condemned and waxed the elephant against) to what you recently posted:

My post from March of this year:
"""Here's the deal, and I know you won't like it, but it is what it is so deal with it: if a Pastor wants to have a dress code for those participating on the platform there is nothing wrong with doing so. In fact, and you're really not going to like this, he doesn't have to have scripture and verse to do so. Period. End of story."""

Your post from a few days ago:
"""He requests that the regular team on the platform be clean shaven."
"""As he puts it, he has a vision regarding the look and feel of his ministry."""
"""So, he requests that those who serve on the platform be clean shaven."""
"""as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires."""



As stated back in March, my Pastor doesn't believe it's a heaven/hell issue. Nor does he believe it's a sin for men to grow a beard. He simply "requests" that men who serve on the platform be clean shaven.


Other than his brother and guests who might occasionally preach, you state this Pastor requests men who serve on the platform be clean shaven.

Are there any men who are members of that church who have a beard and serve on the platform during every service. I'm going to bet the answer is no.

There's a reason for this. Contrary to what you're trying to claim about this Pastor, he really doesn't like beards or want them on the platform. His vision of clean shaven men proves this. Now, he tolerates the brother and occasional guest with a beard, but I would bet the bank he wouldn't allow a bearded man to serve on the platform each and every service.

This Pastor has a platform standard for the "regular people." He has a vision of clean shaven men and requests those serving on the platform (excluding occasional visits from the brother and guests) to be clean shaven.


Same as I posted above.

I'd like to know if there are any regular members who are bearded and serve on the platform each service. I would bet there isn't. He tolerates the occasional beard on the platform, but don't be naive, he has a platform standard.


But here's the deal, even if the Pastor requests the regular men be clean shaven, as I posted back in March, at that time you were completely against it.

Now suddenly you have a bunch of personalities and faces and did a 180.

Look, you don't even know the guy's name and you're writing about what he'd probably do. lol Use your illusion baby! Use your illusion! LOL

I already explained myself.

Now, your choice is to accept what I'm telling you and acknowledge the difference... or … you can live believing in your self created illusion regarding what I wrote to avoid having to actually "understand" what I'm saying. The problem is in your own mind, not with me.

I'll reiterate the difference between what I'm talking about now and what you were talking about then...

The difference is in the use/abuse of authority. The pastor I'm talking about doesn't force the issue. He only has voiced his preference in leadership meetings. No one with a beard will be, or has been, removed from the platform. He has been known to tease them a bit as he looks back over his shoulder, but they are not be removed. He's even teased his brother over his beard on occasion. But the brother is welcome to preach behind the pulpit.

Would the pastor you spoke about back in March remove anyone from the platform that didn't conform to his preference? If so, there is a marked difference between what we're talking about in the way of the use of authority.

You're only making yourself look like you are incapable of paying attention to finer details.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Big Pharma is actually opposed to legalization of MM.

Really? Based on what?

Originally Posted by Aquila

The elite want them to remain illegal.

Multibillion dollar industry? Elite doesn't want to make money?

Originally Posted by Aquila

It helps fuel the private prison industry, gain funding for police departments, locks people into having to rely on prescription meds produced by Big Pharma.

Again, this is all based on what?

Originally Posted by Aquila

They certainly don't want you growing your own medicine. That would bring far too much... freedom.

You ever grow weed? I don't mean one of two plants. I mean enough to be able to smoke. Chris, where do you get such information?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Not only do they not work, but the side effects are just as bad or worse than the symptoms they take the medications to treat.

Marijuana has bad side effects. Why on earth do you think we call it DOPE.

Sweet, sweet, love of God!!!!!!

Where do you get such ideas???

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, I agree. Pastors do get roasted around here.

Which is wrong, which is unfair because they are not here to defend themselves. Also the stories are mostly fabricated and one sided.

Originally Posted by Aquila

But if you pay close attention to what is being said, nothing being said would even apply to loving pastors who are grounded in the Word. Any pastor who is not grounded in the Word is just another idol shepherd. Roast 'em.

You don't have the right to roast em. You can roast me, because I'm here and ready to take on all players. But some brother who isn't available to defend himself is kinda cowardice on the part of the roaster. Don't you agree?

Originally Posted by Aquila

And as a pastor, he is within bounds to request what he desires.

I'm kinda confused here. Roast'em if they are not in the Word as you have interpreted it. Combined with he is within his bounds as he so desires? Which is which?

Originally Posted by Aquila

What I love about him is that he owns it. He has never tried to argue that the Bible is against beards or even that the Bible gives him authority to mandate that men shave or go to Hell. He's a good man.

Yet, he is still in his bounds to make you shave? Whatever.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yep. And everyone is in the know. No booming unbiblical threats are issued from some puny man behind a curtain.

Bro, no minister is threatening anyone in their congregation. That is the mantra of at www.LoisHatesYou.com.