Revelation 18

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Bowas

Who are the two witnesses or what are the two witnesses. \I doubt they are people as some claim, but represent something.

Maybe Old and New Testament. Maybe law and the prophets. It is also possible and seems more probable it is in fact Jesus. During seige of Jerusalem in AD 70, there was not witness in the city at all, as all the Christians had fled.

here is an article I am considering.


I saw this article and thought it interesting.

I have tried over the years to see who or what the Bible says these two witnesses are.
I had considered, “Spirit and Word,”
as found in Zechariah 4:6, but maybe the two witnesses is quite simply, Jesus.

"These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth." (Rev 11:4)

The OLIVE TREES and LAMPSTANDS of Revelation 11:4 is a DIRECT reference to the OLIVE TREES and LAMPSTAND of Zechariah 4. The fact that these two olive trees and lampstands of Rev 11:4 “STAND BEFORE THE LORD OF THE EARTH” is a quote of Zechariah 4:14: “These are the TWO ANNOINTED ONES who STAND BEFORE THE LORD OF THE EARTH.” (Zech 4:14) Zechariah 4 is a vision of two olive trees beside a lampstand in which the two olive trees are SAID to SYMBOLIZE “TWO ANNOINTED ONES” who are clearly identified in Zechariah 3 and 4 as Zerubbabel and Joshua--the KING and HIGH PRIEST.

In New Testament times this can ONLY be one person, JESUS CHRIST who as MESSIAH is KING and HIGH PRIEST as stated in Hebrews 5:10 and 7:1. The fact that Rev 11:4 is a virtual quote of Zechariah 4 in nearly every detail. And in Zechariah 4 the olive trees and lampstand represent the king and high priest, this strongly implies that the same meaning is intended in Rev 11:4. And if that is TRUE the two witnesses cannot be ANYONE other than JESUS CHRIST.

will Jesus die more than once? the two witnesses are clearly not Jesus. Rev 11:8 says their bodies shall lie in the street of the great city where Jesus was crucified. also their bodies will not be put in graves. come on guys.....

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

[/B]
will Jesus die more than once? the two witnesses are clearly not Jesus. Rev 11:8 says their bodies shall lie in the street of the great city where Jesus was crucified. also their bodies will not be put in graves. come on guys.....

No, Jesus will not die more than once, but his word was dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 years during the Gentile siege of Jerusalem in AD70.
You are aware the book of revelation is a book of symbols and imagery that is not to be taken as literal descriptions, but rather literal events described in symbolic language as being "signified."

Rev 1:1.. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John:..

Did you notice the same phraseology being used in Revelation is also found in Zech?

Lamp stands, Candlesticks, who stands before the Lord?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Bowas

No, Jesus will not die more than once, but his word was dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 years during the Gentile siege of Jerusalem in AD70.
You are aware the book of revelation is a book of symbols and imagery that is not to be taken as literal descriptions, but rather literal events described in symbolic language as being "signified."

Rev 1:1.. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John:..

Did you notice the same phraseology being used in Revelation is also found in Zech?

Lamp stands, Candlesticks, who stands before the Lord?

I think we can use the "everything is a symbol" excuse to hide the fact that we dont know. You can find the similar phrases on just about any topic you want. Not everything is a symbol and quite a bit of revelation self reveals the symbols used. Does the scripture say that God's word was dead for 3.5 years? What does God's word say about itself? does it not endure forever? We could just be honest and say we dont really know or we can continue to twist and turn and apply until we confuse ourselves and all that hear us.

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I think we can use the "everything is a symbol" excuse to hide the fact that we dont know. You can find the similar phrases on just about any topic you want. Not everything is a symbol and quite a bit of revelation self reveals the symbols used. Does the scripture say that God's word was dead for 3.5 years? What does God's word say about itself? does it not endure forever? We could just be honest and say we dont really know or we can continue to twist and turn and apply until we confuse ourselves and all that hear us.

If you read what I write, I admit I don't have all the answers. If you don't like what I think I see, either show me I am wrong or ignore me. I said, and gave some examples of what the two witnesses may be, but I am quite certain they are not two men.

What is a witness? Who may be a witness? I gave scripture from Zechariah that are a key to the puzzle no doubt.

Here is a couple of more witnesses, which may further support Jesus is what's being referred to in Rev 11.

Joh_8:18.. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Bowas

No, Jesus will not die more than once, but his word was dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 years during the Gentile siege of Jerusalem in AD70.

Rev 11:3 says the two witnesses preach for 1,260 days (3.5 years). Looks like you're confused?

You are aware the book of revelation is a book of symbols and imagery that is not to be taken as literal descriptions,

Except when it suits you, like "temple still standing"?

but rather literal events described in symbolic language as being "signified."

What was Armageddon? The one AFTER Jerusalem's destruction? Oh, and is New Jerusalem also a literal city, like Babylon?

Did you notice the same phraseology being used in Revelation is also found in Zech?

Lamp stands, Candlesticks, who stands before the Lord?

Well, I think I noticed you seem to be all over the place, 10 miles wide but only one inch deep. I'm not trying to be mean, but seriously, your presentation here is about on the same level as Jack Van Impe (y'all driving the same car, he's gone into a trance staring at the horizon in the windshield, and you dozed off staring at the horizon in the rear view mirror).

You really should read that thread I mentioned, it'll do you good.