The Great Tribulation: Battleground Earth

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In other words they are ashamed to attempt to try to force any kind of historical 5 month event into the 5th trumpet. All they can do is attack.

Read my post Mike.

Man up bro, and do some heavy lifting Mr YouTubes and PalTalk.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I dont have a video about a third temple. The more I see all this preterism being taught the more I am leaning to think there will be one.

[Michael The Disciple]

Ok heres where we are. In my video and here I present what I believe concerning part of the end time battle. The judgment coming at the 5th and 6th trumpets. It can be examined and either accepted or rejected.

On the other hand the Pret/Historic interpreters having come very strongly against what I have openly and publicly taught HAVE OFFERED NOTHING in the way of explaining the verses.

No. Just mocking. I have to assume they are ashamed to post their beliefs on a public forum to be examined.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

One brother was reading the forum one night and came across the discussion we were having (really I was having) concerning your usage of the Hebrew verb YAH. Unbeknownst to me he was also following you running from my questions concerning a third temple being built. He then noticed your videos you posted on the forum which were from your account on YouTubes. He then started watching all of them with his wife. Recently he pulled out the one I posted, and we all watched it. His take away from the huge time he spent in hours watching your stuff. Is that you have some good information on basic cornbread and butter beans Apostolic doctrine. He noticed that you are Yeshuer. But your eschatology videos were (in his words) knee slappers.

Also he holds the opinion you were as closed as a clam to seeing anything outside of your box. I have another video I want to post.

Still hard to fathom that YAH is belittled by Bible readers. I was sitting in a UPC Church just last night were as usual as practically EVERY MEETING....YAH....is praised.

Yes without doubt last night in mid week meetings in THOUSANDS of Pentecostal Churches just in America, not to mention the whole world disciples of Jesus raised their hands and sang:

HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH!!!!!

Of course every time they do this they are worshiping YAH.

It is commonly known that both Youngs and Strongs Concordance define Hallelujah as:

PRAISE YAH!

So why not take your war against HIM to the many Apostolic/Pentecostal Churches who do this and take great joy in it?

As to your friend I am blessed that he would take the time to watch my Youtubes and that he seems to have approved some of them. As to what I teach on the end time being real "knee slappers" I recall what Peter said about men in the end times.

2 Peter 3:3-4

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

This prophetic word is being fulfilled as we speak.

Then again I am "closed as a clam" to any other belief?

Actually I seemed to have been more open to change than at least "many".

I have in time past believed in semi Trinitarianism, pre tribulation rapture, immortal soul, eternal burning of souls, and once saved always saved.

In other words I have had to change practically EVERYTHING I believed foundation wise.

Yet....if someone shows me an area of truth more persuasive to me than what I see presently by scripture I would have to yet humble myself again and repent, embrace it, and move on.



As to being a "Yeshuer" I suppose that means I believe Jesus was born with a Hebrew name and that I honor it.

To that I plead guilty.

YAH IS GOOD

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

In other words they are ashamed to attempt to try to force any kind of historical 5 month event into the 5th trumpet. All they can do is attack.

You don't get it. You have teaching? Then you should be able to answer questions. You don't want to answer questions? Then there is no dialog.

I simply pointed out you and other futurists never lay out the foundation of why Revelation should be taken as all about some future end time scenario. The basis of why you approach prophecy the way you do. And you aren't interested in explaining that.

Which is cool. But this goofy "ashamed" business is stupid. I am not ashamed of anything I believe. And I have no problem laying out what I believe, and why. And I have done so, on this forum.

I guess you never noticed this thread I started specifically for anyone who had "Problems With Historicism"? http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=51227

In other threads I have explained why I believe what I believe. You, however, can only ask questions and never give any answers? Can't just provide the "Why" to what you believe?

I won't say you are "ashamed" of what you believe. I will however say you don't really know why you believe what you believe, and THAT'S why you won't explain the foundations of your doctrine.

[Esaias]

Furthermore, the fact you continuously try to classify me as a preterist, and what I believe as preterism, as if "historical" is just another word for "preterist", proves to me you simply have no clue about prophecy interpretation, its history and development, or the main differences between the main views, or even what main views exist.

So, it is little wonder you don't answer questions about prophecy.

[Michael The Disciple]

Esaias

You don't get it. You have teaching? Then you should be able to answer questions. You don't want to answer questions? Then there is no dialog.

I have answered many questions on the forum. The problem is when someone wants to argue something like "what is air" I refuse to get bogged down in what many times SEEMS to be a side trail OFF the topic. Some will strangle the life out of every word. They will take a conversation that could perhaps be enjoyable and turn it into nothing but strife.

And many times I give an answer that IS my answer. Someone disagrees with it. Then they throw out the same question over and over when I have already given my answer. They reject my answer. Fine. Just dont say I wont answer questions. Many of MY questions go unanswered for sure.


On Doms demand he makes about a third temple I have commented on it in threads and I have been pretty consistent that I'm not sure one need be built.

Heres what I have always been dogmatic about concerning the end time.

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The fact that the rapture wont happen until this takes place. There will be a temple. No one should be teaching Jesus can come until after this man of sin comes. If they do they are a deceiver. I see 2 other alternatives to a rabbinic 3rd temple.

1. Jerusalem itself.
2. A temple the man of sin builds for his honor, calling HIMSELF GOD.

But...I am not ruling out the Jews will build a Temple or at least some facsimile of one. If one begins to be built by them then I will believe it is the temple that marks the last days.

Its like the 70 weeks. I have said several times here I'm not sure the 70 weeks has a gap in them. I was trying to listen on this latest thread and see if I could gain anything from what I was hearing to what I already have heard.

Yet on the forum I am considered a "dispensationlist" or whatever name is being used. Maybe I cant fully explain why I think the 70 weeks need not be part of the end time scenario yet. At this point I dont think it affects what I believe.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have answered many questions on the forum. The problem is when someone wants to argue something like "what is air" I refuse to get bogged down in what many times SEEMS to be a side trail OFF the topic.

And many times I give an answer that IS my answer. Someone disagrees with it. Then they throw out the same question over and over when I have already given my answer. They reject my answer. Fine. Just dont say I wont answer questions.


On Doms demand he makes about a third temple I have commented on it in threads and I have been pretty consistent that I'm not sure one need be built.

Heres what I have always been dogmatic about concerning the end time.

2 Thess 2:1-4

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The fact that the rapture wont happen until this takes place. There will be a temple. No one should be teaching Jesus can come until after this man of sin comes. If they do they are a deceiver. I see 2 other alternatives to a rabbinic 3rd temple.

1. Jerusalem itself.
2. A temple the man of sin builds for his honor, calling HIMSELF GOD.

But...I am not ruling out the Jews will build a Temple or at least some facsimile of one. If one begins to be built by them then I will believe it is the temple that marks the last days.

Its like the 70 weeks. I have said several times here I'm not sure the 70 weeks has a gap in them. I was trying to listen on this latest thread and see if I could gain anything from what I was hearing to what I already have heard.

Yet on the forum I am considered a "dispensationlist" or whatever name is being used. Maybe I cant fully explain why I think the 70 weeks need not be part of the end time scenario yet. At this point I dont think it affects what I believe.

My question was "Upon what basis, what is it that causes you to believe that the Revelation deals pretty much exclusively with a short-timed future end time scenario?"

That's what I would honestly like to know.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Furthermore, the fact you continuously try to classify me as a preterist, and what I believe as preterism, as if "historical" is just another word for "preterist", proves to me you simply have no clue about prophecy interpretation, its history and development, or the main differences between the main views, or even what main views exist.

So, it is little wonder you don't answer questions about prophecy.

I put a difference between Peterist/historist when I said:

On the other hand the Pret/Historic interpreters having come very strongly against what I have openly and publicly taught HAVE OFFERED NOTHING in the way of explaining the verses.

Indeed up to this point neither you or Dom has set forth an answer to what is meant by the opening of the 5th seal. He is the Preterist. You are the Historist.

I made a video about it years ago. I said what I believe. It is now being examined. Good. I am glad anyone would take the time to watch it. I am now simply agreeing with what I said then. I'm open about it. I'm not trying to hide anything.

When I see you all put an explanation into the thread I will have the same opportunity to examine it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

My question was "Upon what basis, what is it that causes you to believe that the Revelation deals pretty much exclusively with a short-timed future end time scenario?"

That's what I would honestly like to know.

It seems to be teaching us about a relatively short time period. About 3.5 years. Daniel mentions it. John mentions it. I dont see Revelation as entirely literal or entirely symbolic. Its like with Jesus other teachings. Some of both.

Jesus has not yet come. His coming is wrapped up in the events in Revelation. Thats the short explanation of why I am what you call "a futurist".