UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Exactly right, and I don't give any pastor my personal opinion if NOT asked first. He is building the work, or it is thriving and growing. You walk into a church and people are strangers to you. Visiting ministers tend to pull on the white glove and give the place a good once over. Then over at Cracker Barrel you get some free unsolicited advise about Sister Gilly Ginamae, and Uncle Fetus LeRoy, about how they both watch GOT, but both are looking as Apostolic as a 1970 Apostolic record album cover??? Or a Sister who is still wearing pants after they found out she has been in the church for over 15 years??? Hey I done it when I was a wee lamb, yet, I got egg on my face later on, when I considered the greater scope. Pastor Foofoofnick must be not hammering down the nails that are sticking out!!! He got to take charge and tell these people how the cow ate the cabbage!!! No, he must listen to God, and allow the Lord to lead him in his church family. Unhindered by anyone's unsolicited advise.

Bingo. Can't we give the guy some credit for getting them in the doors and keeping them around so they can hear the Word? It's as if the pastor is assumed incompetent until proven otherwise. How about we give him room to operate and see what the results are?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Ehud

Bingo. Can't we give the guy some credit for getting them in the doors and keeping them around so they can hear the Word? It's as if the pastor is assumed incompetent until proven otherwise. How about we give him room to operate and see what the results are?

It's all on the pastor, he is breaking big rocks into little rocks. He is doing all the heavy lifting while he and the Mrs are eating mayonnaise sandwiches. Meanwhile some drive by shooters are making comments about his congregation.

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It's all on the pastor, he is breaking big rocks into little rocks. He is doing all the heavy lifting while he and the Mrs are eating mayonnaise sandwiches. Meanwhile some drive by shooters are making comments about his congregation.

Yep. So true...

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It's all on the pastor, he is breaking big rocks into little rocks. He is doing all the heavy lifting while he and the Mrs are eating mayonnaise sandwiches. Meanwhile some drive by shooters are making comments about his congregation.

“If only I had received the unsolicited advice of complete strangers with no firsthand knowledge of any situation facing my saints, things would have turned out for the better,” said no pastor ever.

Don’t we as saints have to bear some responsibility in all of this? Didn’t Paul admonish the Corinthian church to not even eat with those who claimed to be brothers but were openly doing X, Y, and Z? If a sin is truly as blatant as is being proposed, the pastor shouldn’t have any need to blast it from the pulpit because the whole congregation should have already made it clear that stuff isn’t tolerated.

But we probably aren’t talking about REAL sin, now are we? No, we have pew-sitters that want the pastor to enforce personal preferences, and visiting ministers who will “take care of those things” for the pastor before leaving town, never to return, leaving a mess for the pastor to clean up.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Ehud

“If only I had received the unsolicited advice of complete strangers with no firsthand knowledge of any situation facing my saints, things would have turned out for the better,” said no pastor ever.

No, many a pastor had made the exact statement. Everyone has had a turn at the wheel. Hence the reason why so many brothers only preach tried and true brethren. If you give a reference then you come under "lay no hands on any man suddenly" situation. Because you are accountable for Brother So N So watermelon dropping. Had a brother come and preach and while everyone is in the altar he wanted to know when we were going to eat. I gave him 20 bucks and told him to beat it. Know them that labor among you. Simple. But having someone lob a huge dud over the pulpit? It has happened to everyone. Even your best friends can make mistakes. But that is the beauty of having a church FAMILY. They watch you, they look to see how you react to the "visiting minister" You know what I'm talking about, you hear something odd, you look straight at the pastor. A visiting evangelist or missionary only gets a week, or one night? The pastor has 365 days to straighten out a bent road.

Originally Posted by Ehud

Don’t we as saints have to bear some responsibility in all of this?

Huge responsibility. But only those who are going in the same direction of the elders. Not busy bodies, or troublemakers looking to bring on a munity.

Originally Posted by Ehud

Didn’t Paul admonish the Corinthian church to not even eat with those who claimed to be brothers but were openly doing X, Y, and Z? If a sin is truly as blatant as is being proposed, the pastor shouldn’t have any need to blast it from the pulpit because the whole congregation should have already made it clear that stuff isn’t tolerated.

But still no body wants anyone to have a gang mentality. The ministry is working on and with everyone in the church family. Brother and Sister Goober might want to come down on MeeMaw because she has gone to see the Avengers marathon. But they need to move with the Holy Ghost, not the Holy Toast. Going to a diner and having a group tell you that they don't like Brother Tom Bombadil, because he is still dipping. Well, he doesn't dip when he is at church, no spitting around the property? Well, one brother pipes up and tells that Old Brother Tom does it at work. So what! The guy is obviously TRYING. So, pray for the brother, because he really needs the prayer, and you all sure need the practice.

Originally Posted by Ehud

But we probably aren’t talking about REAL sin, now are we? No, we have pew-sitters that want the pastor to enforce personal preferences, and visiting ministers who will “take care of those things” for the pastor before leaving town, never to return, leaving a mess for the pastor to clean up.

I think I cover this above, but real sin? No, they just have issues on the things they see on the surface. Real sin lurks in the inner shadows of the mind. Who we are in the dark is where we really are judged as Christians. Behind closed doors, within the time where no one can see us. Being a Christian really counts when we are on our rear end, and everything is burning down around us. When those we thought were our friends are now skinning us alive. When all have forsaken us, and are now sinking their knives, fangs, and claws in our back. That is the time to let the Holy Ghost move, and allow Jesus to put more weight on the bar for a deadlift. That's when cleaning up a mess, or putting out a fire is doable. The brothers and sisters who really know their pastor, and his desire for them, don't sweat the small stuff. They abide, and they grow taller with Jesus and the elders.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The pastor has 365 days to straighten out a bent road.

Absolutely. Which is all the more reason the pastor should have the leeway to do what he feels God is leading him to do.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Huge responsibility. But only those who are going in the same direction of the elders. Not busy bodies, or troublemakers looking to bring on a munity.

Agreed. Simply saying 'saints' was likely too broad a usage.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But still no body wants anyone to have a gang mentality. The ministry is working on and with everyone in the church family. Brother and Sister Goober might want to come down on MeeMaw because she has gone to see the Avengers marathon. But they need to move with the Holy Ghost, not the Holy Toast. Going to a diner and having a group tell you that they don't like Brother Tom Bombadil, because he is still dipping. Well, he doesn't dip when he is at church, no spitting around the property? Well, one brother pipes up and tells that Old Brother Tom does it at work. So what! The guy is obviously TRYING. So, pray for the brother, because he really needs the prayer, and you all sure need the practice.

Thank you! We definitely need to make distinctions between those who refuse to get right and those who are struggling in their efforts.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I think I cover this above, but real sin? No, they just have issues on the things they see on the surface.

Boy, ain't that the truth!?!

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The brothers and sisters who really know their pastor, and his desire for them, don't sweat the small stuff. They abide, and they grow taller with Jesus and the elders.

Amen.

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Real sin lurks in the inner shadows of the mind. Who we are in the dark is where we really are judged as Christians. Behind closed doors, within the time where no one can see us. Being a Christian really counts when we are on our rear end, and everything is burning down around us. When those we thought were our friends are now skinning us alive. When all have forsaken us, and are now sinking their knives, fangs, and claws in our back. That is the time to let the Holy Ghost move, and allow Jesus to put more weight on the bar for a deadlift. That's when cleaning up a mess, or putting out a fire is doable. The brothers and sisters who really know their pastor, and his desire for them, don't sweat the small stuff. They abide, and they grow taller with Jesus and the elders.

How true this is!

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Going to a diner and having a group tell you that they don't like Brother Tom Bombadil, because he is still dipping. Well, he doesn't dip when he is at church, no spitting around the property? Well, one brother pipes up and tells that Old Brother Tom does it at work.

I can't tell you how delighted I am to hear that Tom Bombadil is now going to church! But what about his wife, Goldberry? And where are they attending services? Is there an Apostolic Church now in Bucklebury or are they having to travel all the way to Bree?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by derAlte

I can't tell you how delighted I am to hear that Tom Bombadil is now going to church! But what about his wife, Goldberry? And where are they attending services? Is there an Apostolic Church now in Bucklebury or are they having to travel all the way to Bree?

I believe they go to the First UPC of Buckland.

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I believe they go to the First UPC of Buckland.