UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

Ehud · #1 05-23-2019, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I think you missed the point. The point is there are still those in the Church who came out of a lifestyle of rebellion that was identified by their long hair and facial hair. When they were converted they tried to get as far away from that identity as possible so they cut their hair and shaved. It was about identity and representation.

IMAO any Pastor with any sense would rather keep some things in place than cause mass confusion and disunity in a local Church. To me its the safest thing to do.

By "keep some things in place," do you mean things like platform rules? Or are we meaning the pastor still teaches that beards equal rebellion?

Apostolic1ness · #2 05-23-2019, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehud

By "keep some things in place," do you mean things like platform rules? Or are we meaning the pastor still teaches that beards equal rebellion?

Good question. platform rules sure. but the Pastor should use a little wisdom dealing with traditions. I would rather be taught why a tradition is being kept than have to wonder why we do what we do. So I think if a tradition is kept there needs to be an understanding why.

I can only speak for me but I want to know the whys.
Im not totally against traditions some are for the safety of the saints.

Ehud · #3 05-23-2019, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Good question. platform rules sure. but the Pastor should use a little wisdom dealing with traditions. I would rather be taught why a tradition is being kept than have to wonder why we do what we do. So I think if a tradition is kept there needs to be an understanding why.

I can only speak for me but I want to know the whys.
Im not totally against traditions some are for the safety of the saints.

Dead on. We would do well to speak with our pastors about these things instead of assuming they are just cooks who can't keep up with the times.

Antipas · #4 05-23-2019, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehud

Dead on. We would do well to speak with our pastors about these things instead of assuming they are just cooks who can't keep up with the times.

Good point.

Is it possible that some pastors find themselves as much hostage to a mold that the congregation has had for decades as the new comers? But the pastor continues to hold the line... knowing that if he dares to challenge, change, or loosen the outdated traditions... the church will just fall apart or run him out of town?

hometown guy · #5 05-23-2019, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antipas

Good point.

Is it possible that some pastors find themselves as much hostage to a mold that the congregation has had for decades as the new comers? But the pastor continues to hold the line... knowing that if he dares to challenge, change, or loosen the outdated traditions... the church will just fall apart or run him out of town?

No matter what side of the fence a pastor is on he would be a hireling to be like this.

Antipas · #6 05-23-2019, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

No matter what side of the fence a pastor is on he would be a hireling to be like this.

Ouch. The truth hurts.

Antipas · #7 05-23-2019, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Good question. platform rules sure. but the Pastor should use a little wisdom dealing with traditions. I would rather be taught why a tradition is being kept than have to wonder why we do what we do. So I think if a tradition is kept there needs to be an understanding why.

I can only speak for me but I want to know the whys.
Im not totally against traditions some are for the safety of the saints.

Good points. But I see issues with a few of them.

What if someone brought up that more people leave our movement over the outdated personal convictions that have become sacred traditions than outright sins like adultery, drunkenness, or fornication? I see them everywhere. In fact, on the street, those who are familiar with the Apostolic churches and organizations around here will almost always bring up the standards they just felt were stuffy and stifling their love for Christ.

Even this forum, and other Apostolic forums and social media have a near constant discussions on this with both sides passionate about their beliefs. However, but the average person on the street who visits our churches, or eventually leaves, will talk about how these "standards" contributed to why they left.

This could indicate that these traditions are perhaps more dangerous than we realize, only offering "safety" to those saints who prefer that things not change from what they've known since the 1960's.

Apostolic1ness · #8 05-23-2019, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antipas

Good points. But I see issues with a few of them.

What if someone brought up that more people leave our movement over the outdated personal convictions that have become sacred traditions than outright sins like adultery, drunkenness, or fornication? I see them everywhere. In fact, on the street, those who are familiar with the Apostolic churches and organizations around here will almost always bring up the standards they just felt were stuffy and stifling their love for Christ.

Even this forum, and other Apostolic forums and social media have a near constant discussions on this with both sides passionate about their beliefs. However, but the average person on the street who visits our churches, or eventually leaves, will talk about how these "standards" contributed to why they left.

This could indicate that these traditions are perhaps more dangerous than we realize, only offering "safety" to those saints who prefer that things not change from what they've known since the 1960's.

I can only speak for me but when I came into the Church out of the world I received the real Holy Ghost and my life that I once lived in the flesh I no longer lived it. I didnt care what I had to do, not do, change, whatever. I just knew I was dead in sin one day and the next I was given mercy and was now alive in Christ. I didnt know that beard shaving was not in the scripture and I didnt care, i didnt know many things but what I did know was I was changed and I found something real and worth keeping.

Those that come and go and never receive the Holy Ghost and those that say they received God but never die to the flesh I dont think we owe them one apology for what we live and believe. A new convert, yes lets teach and love and cherish. But those that just cant live for God based on our dress code and standards sorry but they didnt die like I did when I repented neither did they receive what I received when I got the Holy Ghost.

We believe what we believe because we feel like it is well pleasing to God and is the safest stance for our local assembly. People can talk and criticize if they want to, but let something go wrong in their life or let them need God to do a miracle in their life, who do they always come back to? The Apostolic Church, that Holiness church that every makes fun of and they left because we believe in long hair and clean shaven faces. I have seen it too many times they know where to go to Find the power of God that they so desperately need.

We owe no apologies.

hometown guy · #9 05-23-2019, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I can only speak for me but when I came into the Church out of the world I received the real Holy Ghost and my life that I once lived in the flesh I no longer lived it. I didnt care what I had to do, not do, change, whatever. I just knew I was dead in sin one day and the next I was given mercy and was now alive in Christ. I didnt know that beard shaving was not in the scripture and I didnt care, i didnt know many things but what I did know was I was changed and I found something real and worth keeping.

Those that come and go and never receive the Holy Ghost and those that say they received God but never die to the flesh I dont think we owe them one apology for what we live and believe. A new convert, yes lets teach and love and cherish. But those that just cant live for God based on our dress code and standards sorry but they didnt die like I did when I repented neither did they receive what I received when I got the Holy Ghost.

We believe what we believe because we feel like it is well pleasing to God and is the safest stance for our local assembly. People can talk and criticize if they want to, but let something go wrong in their life or let them need God to do a miracle in their life, who do they always come back to? The Apostolic Church, that Holiness church that every makes fun of and they left because we believe in long hair and clean shaven faces. I have seen it too many times they know where to go to Find the power of God that they so desperately need.

We owe no apologies.

Yup so true.

n david · #10 05-23-2019, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

But those that just cant live for God based on our dress code and standards sorry but they didnt die like I did when I repented neither did they receive what I received when I got the Holy Ghost.

Not sure I'm reading this right. It almost appears you're saying that people who don't agree with your dress codes and standards didn't really repent or receive the HG.

I must be reading it wrong, though. Please explain.