Hello aff devils

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


If you entered heaven and discovered the family member(s) you thought were saved ended up being lost for eternity, wouldn't that thought bring you tears and sorrow?

According to scripture, there will be no sorrow, tears, or pain in heaven. I can only assume that you'll be unaware of who was lost for eternity, otherwise you would experience crying, sorrow, and pain in heaven, which scriptures state will no longer exist in heaven.

The only other method of not feeling pain and sorrow in heaven is becoming numb to the fact that your family members didn't make it. Don't we desire that our loved ones be saved while they're alive on Earth? Why would our mentality change to, "ahh they deserved what they got" after we enter heaven, after discovering they're lost for eternity?

Plenty of people experience sadness, pain, grief, loss, etc, and eventually stop weeping and grieving, without them either forgetting or becoming "numb".

It is entirely conceivable that the saints will accept the righteous judgments of God, which is to be expected in fact since converted persons have and continue to lay down their wills and desires to prefer the will of God be done, as they believe His decisions are the best.

Wiping away tears doesnt mean wiping away memories.

[BrainWashed]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Plenty of people experience sadness, pain, grief, loss, etc, and eventually stop weeping and grieving, without them either forgetting or becoming "numb".

It is entirely conceivable that the saints will accept the righteous judgments of God, which is to be expected in fact since converted persons have and continue to lay down their wills and desires to prefer the will of God be done, as they believe His decisions are the best.

Wiping away tears doesnt mean wiping away memories.

I know people that weep to this day, which lost family members many years ago. Time doesn't always "heal" grief. Some memories often bring sorrows, and that can't be denied.

You mentioned that "wiping away tears doesn't mean wiping away memories."

Do you believe that whenever you're in heaven, you'll have a thought about a loved one (e.g. parents, siblings) being lost for eternity, and you'll be okay with it?

What could you possibly say to that? Ah..they didn't listen so they deserved eternal damnation. We are human beings created with emotions. Can you really say they you'd be in heaven, knowing your family is lost for eternity, and just accept it and be okay with it? You don't believe in some conscious level you would desire your family to be there?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

I know people that weep to this day, which lost family members many years ago. Time doesn't always "heal" grief. Some memories often bring sorrows, and that can't be denied.

God is greater than time, and greater than our grief and sorrows. God shall wipe away all tears from our eyes. We shall be healed, made whole, and be blessed ("happy") throughout the ages of the ages.

You mentioned that "wiping away tears doesn't mean wiping away memories."

Do you believe that whenever you're in heaven, you'll have a thought about a loved one (e.g. parents, siblings) being lost for eternity, and you'll be okay with it?

What could you possibly say to that? Ah..they didn't listen so they deserved eternal damnation. We are human beings created with emotions. Can you really say they you'd be in heaven, knowing your family is lost for eternity, and just accept it and be okay with it? You don't believe in some conscious level you would desire your family to be there?

First of all, our destiny isn't heaven, it is eternity with God here on earth. But I understand what your saying.

You seem to be cheapening the overcoming power of God's love, and of His comfort. If God can't make you happy unless some loved one is with you, then I am afraid you are likely not going to make it.

Jesus said if we do not hate mother, father, wife, husband, sister, brother, son, daughter, yea and our own life also, we cannot be His disciple. What does that mean to you? Sounds to me like it means He has to be our number one priority, that if everyone on earth rejected Him we would still follow and live Him, that if following Him means leaving our closest friends and family behind then we weep, and then pull up our big boy pants and move on.

"Though none go with me, still I will follow...no turning back, no turning back."

Ever read Pilgrim's Progress? It teaches an important lesson.

Quite a few folks actually worship friends and family, with God just as a means to an end, instead of Him being the GOAL. Quite a few folks will find themselves lost because Jesus can't make them happy unless some demsnd of theirs is met.

This isnt about being nonchalant towards loved ones. It about proper perspective. "Let the dead bury their own dead". David wept and grieved for his dying child. When the child died, he wept no more. Why is that?

[TakingDominion]

Originally Posted by Esaias

. David wept and grieved for his dying child. When the child died, he wept no more. Why is that?

I believe David said while the child yet lived, he thought God might have mercy and allow it to live. Once it died, there was no more reason to weep...

[BrainWashed]

Originally Posted by Esaias

God is greater than time, and greater than our grief and sorrows. God shall wipe away all tears from our eyes. We shall be healed, made whole, and be blessed ("happy") throughout the ages of the ages.

Sure, god is greater than time, grief and sorrow.

Revelations 21:5 reads, He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Understanding God will remove death, pain, sorrow, etc., could it be possible that he will erase certain memories that would cause sorrow? Yes, it's possible. Is it possible that God will remove certain emotions from us? That's possible too. When god created Adam and his wife, they were both naked, and they felt no shame, and they were whole. There was no emotion of shame present. Being made whole might mean certain memories being erased or emotions being deleted.

Originally Posted by Esaias

First of all, our destiny isn't heaven, it is eternity with God here on earth. But I understand what your saying.

I'm sure you understood what I was indicating.

Originally Posted by Esaias

You seem to be cheapening the overcoming power of God's love, and of His comfort. If God can't make you happy unless some loved one is with you, then I am afraid you are likely not going to make it.

I don't believe I'm cheapening the power of god. Something must occur to remove grief. Remember, Adam and Eve felt no shame while naked. They didn't posses that emotion until after the fall. Prior to that they were "whole." I wonder what other emotions they didn't posses while "whole." Is it possible certain emotions will be removed from us to forget grief and sorrow, yes.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Jesus said if we do not hate mother, father, wife, husband, sister, brother, son, daughter, yea and our own life also, we cannot be His disciple. What does that mean to you? Sounds to me like it means He has to be our number one priority, that if everyone on earth rejected Him we would still follow and live Him, that if following Him means leaving our closest friends and family behind then we weep, and then pull up our big boy pants and move on.

Jesus is my number one priority, and will always be chosen above any family member. It's His will above my own, even if it means forsaking my family. However, that doesn't negate the fact that I have parents and siblings that need god. The father, when seeing his son a far off (prodigal son), had compassion (concern for his sufferings) for his son, ran to him, hugged and kissed him. It seems like the father never pulled his big boy pants up after his son left for a distant country.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Quite a few folks actually worship friends and family, with God just as a means to an end, instead of Him being the GOAL. Quite a few folks will find themselves lost because Jesus can't make them happy unless some demsnd of theirs is met.

This isnt about being nonchalant towards loved ones. It about proper perspective. "Let the dead bury their own dead". David wept and grieved for his dying child. When the child died, he wept no more. Why is that?

I think David taught us a great lesson. David fasted and cried to change god's mind about letting his baby live. If we're not constantly fasting and crying our to god for out loved ones, friends, and strangers, do we really care about anyone else beside ourselves? If God's willing that none should perish, why should I pull up my 42 waist pants and move on? Again, this is beside the point.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by BrainWashed

Sure, god is greater than time, grief and sorrow.

Revelations 21:5 reads, He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Understanding God will remove death, pain, sorrow, etc., could it be possible that he will erase certain memories that would cause sorrow? Yes, it's possible. Is it possible that God will remove certain emotions from us? That's possible too. When god created Adam and his wife, they were both naked, and they felt no shame, and they were whole. There was no emotion of shame present. Being made whole might mean certain memories being erased or emotions being deleted.





I'm sure you understood what I was indicating.




I don't believe I'm cheapening the power of god. Something must occur to remove grief. Remember, Adam and Eve felt no shame while naked. They didn't posses that emotion until after the fall. Prior to that they were "whole." I wonder what other emotions they didn't posses while "whole." Is it possible certain emotions will be removed from us to forget grief and sorrow, yes.






Jesus is my number one priority, and will always be chosen above any family member. It's His will above my own, even if it means forsaking my family. However, that doesn't negate the fact that I have parents and siblings that need god. The father, when seeing his son a far off (prodigal son), had compassion (concern for his sufferings) for his son, ran to him, hugged and kissed him. It seems like the father never pulled his big boy pants up after his son left for a distant country.





I think David taught us a great lesson. David fasted and cried to change god's mind about letting his baby live. If we're not constantly fasting and crying our to god for out loved ones, friends, and strangers, do we really care about anyone else beside ourselves? If God's willing that none should perish, why should I pull up my 42 waist pants and move on? Again, this is beside the point.

I'm not saying "move on" NOW. There's still hope. But once the judgment is set, the only thing left is to accept God's decision. The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

Your last paragraph, by the way, is sobering truth, about what our current attitudes ought to be.