NT verses about who Jesus was/is

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Yes, sorry, but I still haven't found them on my computer.
Meanwhile, I could send you a NT. lol
Give me 10 minutes (to find them, not to send a NT).

Meanwhile ...
Oneness claims Jesus is God, and there is no Father God.
And no God the Holy Spirit.
Correct?

We don't deny God the Father of the incarnation (Son of God). We don't deny either God as the Father of all creation.

We clearly say that the Holy Spirit is God himself, operating. God is Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord:

[2Co 3:17 KJV] 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. (find me one verse where Paul refers to the Lord that is not referring to Jesus Christ).

[Jhn 4:24 KJV] 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

I don't think you fully know what Oneness believe.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by coksiw

We don't deny God the Father of the incarnation (Son of God). We don't deny either God as the Father of all creation.

We clearly say that the Holy Spirit is God himself, operating. God is Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord:

[2Co 3:17 KJV] 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. (find me one verse where Paul refers to the Lord that is not referring to Jesus Christ).

[Jhn 4:24 KJV] 24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

I don't think you fully know what Oneness believe.

I don't think Oneness truly know what they believe.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

I don't think Oneness truly know what they believe.

I guess it is perception based on personal experience.
Brother, if you ask a Trinitarian, who is not a theologian, to explain it to you, you get an explanation of polytheism or practical oneness for prayer/singing/communicating to/about God.
But I leave it like this because it is a subjective topic.

My point is that obviously BCsenior doesn’t know what we believe and he should check it out before starting a discussion, so we can have a good debate.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I guess it is perception based on personal experience.
Brother, if you ask a Trinitarian, who is not a theologian, to explain it to you, you get an explanation of polytheism or practical oneness for prayer/singing/communicating to/about God.
But I leave it like this because it is a subjective topic.

My point is that obviously BCsenior doesn’t know what we believe and he should check it out before starting a discussion, so we can have a good debate.

Ordinary Oneness church going most of them all they tell can tell you is Jesus is the Father, and Acts 2:38.
Your guys have some well versed pastors who along with your Theologians seem to explain it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Ordinary Oneness church going most of them all they tell can tell you is Jesus is the Father, and Acts 2:38.
Your guys have some well versed pastors who along with your Theologians seem to explain it.

There is a really watered down version of Oneness today. Many Oneness are ashamed of the doctrine because they are greatly outnumbered in "Christianity". True Oneness belief is only understood in the light that Jesus is the Father.

I have been attending UPC Churches for the last year and a half along with watching one on livestream. In this time I have not heard it taught or even mentioned that Jesus is the Father.

That does not mean it isnt true. I firmly believe it is. It seems tho that the modern "Apostolic" Preachers dont have the joy for it as in earlier times.

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

True Oneness belief is only understood in the light that Jesus is the Father.

Okay, how is Jesus (often) praying to the Father explained?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Okay, how is Jesus (often) praying to the Father explained?

There are several lines of truth that explain how Jesus is the Father but he is praying to the Father.

I will start with the most simple, yet the most despised.

Who is the Father of Jesus?

Peter knew.

Acts 3:13

13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

I agree fully with Pete. The Father of Jesus is the GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, AND JACOB.

Do you agree? If you say yes we can move on to the next question.

Who is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob?

Moses met him in Exodus 3:4-6

4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Here we see the one Apostle Peter said was the Father of Jesus. Amen?

Exodus 3:13-15

13And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Now we can see plainly the identity of the God of Abe, Issac, and Jacob. He is called I AM. Amen?

So I AM is the Father of Jesus Christ according to Apostle Peter in Acts 3:13.

If we miss this we will never be able to identify the Father of Jesus.

NOW.....who is Jesus?

John 8:56-59

56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Ok the Father of Jesus is I AM. Agreed?

Jesus is I AM agreed?

Are there two I AM's?

Or is Jesus BOTH........the Father and the Son?

Is Jesus the I AM the Father of Jesus? Is that Bible?

Isaiah 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Did Isaiah say the Christ would be BOTH......The Father and the Son?

Did Jesus confirm it?

John 14:7-9


7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus reproved Phil for seeking to know the Father except by him! All Phil wanted was to know the Father APART FROM JESUS. The same thing Trins claim as part of their orthodox faith!

So who is the Father of Jesus? You tell me.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I guess it is perception based on personal experience.
Brother, if you ask a Trinitarian, who is not a theologian, to explain it to you, you get an explanation of polytheism or practical oneness for prayer/singing/communicating to/about God.
But I leave it like this because it is a subjective topic.

My point is that obviously BCsenior doesn’t know what we believe and he should check it out before starting a discussion, so we can have a good debate.

True story. I witnessed a Trinitarian who explained the trinity to a mutual friend of ours. Now the man that he was explaining it to had asked for help to understand it (the trinity). The man giving the explanation was a Bible scholar.

So this Bible scholar patiently explained to the man (who was seated);

1: now aren’t you a son? The man replies “of course “.

2. Now aren’t you also a father? The man says yes, I have a daughter.

3.Now aren’t you a husband? Yes, I am a married man.

The scholar says, “don’t you see? That is like the trinity!”

I said, but wait. How many persons are sitting in that chair?

The scholar didn’t hesitate. “There is one”. I said you have just explained oneness!

I have heard similar ways of explaining oneness my whole life.

[BCsenior]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I don't think you fully know what Oneness believe.

Thou art absolutely correct.
Who's willing to explain it to me?
How many of the following are God? ... F, J, HS
Thanks.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by BCsenior

Thou art absolutely correct.
Who's willing to explain it to me?
How many of the following are God? ... F, J, HS
Thanks.

It's all the same God.

Yaweh of the OT manifested himself in flesh in Jesus, and God is Spirit.

The term "Holy Spirit" refers to God himself as a Spirit doing something: creating, filling, orchestrating, etc...

The term Son of God refers to God incarnated

The term Father refers to God as the Father of all creation, including the incarnation.


Some people here may use more sophisticated terms, but I'll leave it like that. I hope it makes sense to you.

None of the verses you posted proves that they are different persons. They all can be interpreted as well with the Oneness.

Jesus praying to the Father can be perfectly explained by the fact that Jesus is 100% God, but also he had to be a 100% man so he could take our place. So yes, the man Jesus had to pray like we have to.