Gino Jennings End Times

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sadly, he is wrong. You have to compare Matt 24:30-31 with Matt 23:37 to know what gather together is talking about. What Jerusalem refused to let him do with them is what the obedient will willingly see Him do for them.

Sorry what exactly you believe about the First Resurrection?
Matt 24:30-31 is (probably) the Gathering we see at Revelation 14 and also the same event as described by Paul in Thessalonians 1 (1)Coming from Heaven to earth, 2) with a voice from Archangel, 3) In the Clouds, 4)trump of God 5)In the last Trump.
In Luke is described too very wonderfully (and fearfully )
Luke 17 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.3 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Also this last word " thither will the eagles be gathered together." by Luke ,is used in Matthew too when speaks about those who teach a secret rapture:

Mat.24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together

and then wafter speaks about the false prophets sighn continues in the very next verse (and in the same paragraph )
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
When all this will happen Matthew? Immediately after the tribulation of those days

Amen, God bless

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

Sorry what exactly you believe about the First Resurrection?

It's salvation.

John 5 shows Jesus talking about two resurrections. The first is salvation when we hear his voice and come alive into newness of life, as in Romans 6:13 where we are said to be alive from the dead once we're saved, and must pray with that perspective in mind. The second is from the graves and is physical.

Matt 24:30-31 is (probably) the Gathering we see at Revelation 14

I disagree.

The gathering is protection from destruction and wrath -- see the same terms used in reference to Jerusalem at the end of Matt 23, whom HE WOULD have gathered together from trouble, but they refused.

Revelation is not a series of movies of the future. It is symbolic of what would happen after John wrote it, and the symbols are old testament stories that actually occurred literally, but are used as symbols of what would happen in John's future. John was in the same tribulation he wrote about in Revelation. He wrote the book to the early church as his brethren in tribulation. When Jesus spoke to Jerusalem about gathering them together, he said those events would happen in "this generation", which would be the generation he preached to. And the same set of words speaking about gathering together and "this generation" are found in Matt 24 speaking about the church who would be gathered INSTEAD of Jerusalem, "from the four winds". The four winds are the four horsemen that we see called the four spirits/winds in Zechariah 6. Jesus listed the six seals of Revelation 6 in Matth 24. And the first four are the four horsemen of false Christs, wars, famines and death. Tie that with Zech 6 and Rev 6 and see that the four winds he'd gather them from were the four horsemen.

and also the same event as described by Paul in Thessalonians 1 (1)Coming from Heaven to earth, 2) with a voice from Archangel, 3) In the Clouds, 4)trump of God 5)In the last Trump.

Many trumpet sounds represent different things. Trumpet signaled varying events, like call to war, regathering etc. So, just because we read a trumpet does not mean Resurrection. Read about the seven trumpets in Revelation!

Matt 24 spoke of the first century when NO RESURRECTION would occur.

Jesus was asked about THE SIGN when "these things" would come to pass and the end of the WORLD/AGE would occur, not end of the planet. When they asked about THESE THINGS and the SIGN OF THY COMING, the SIGN was repeated in Mark's and Luke's gospels as the SIGN WHEN THESE THINGS shall come to pass. THESE THINGS refers tot he temple destruction. A COMING of Jesus occurred when the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed. He referred to the temple destruction as a COMING of Himself in Matt 21:40 in speaking of the parable of the vineyard and the wicked husbandmen. Not all comings are the rapture. That's the SECOND COMING not to be confused with the COMING in local destruction in the first century.

In Luke is described too very wonderfully (and fearfully )
Luke 17 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.3 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

That was a coming of destruction ONLY, not for resurrection or rapture. THE SIGN mentioned in Luke 21, Mark 13 and Matt 24 was the sign of the temple destruction. No word of resurrection is plainly mentioned anywhere in those three chapters. People assume it is resurrection, but the resurreciton f 1 Cor 15 is not at all hinted at plainly in those chapters. Tradition has skewed the reference to the temple destruction in Jerusalem to be the resurrection.

Also this last word " thither will the eagles be gathered together." by Luke ,is used in Matthew too when speaks about those who teach a secret rapture:

No, it is definitely not. Gathering the eagles is destruction. It is a hint of the roman armies using the eagle as the standard that came in use by God's hand to destroy Jerusalem Everything listed by way of Noah entering the ark, lot and the eagles gathering, as well as the good man's house being broken up, all refer to unexpected Destruction only.

Mat.24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together

Carcase is a dead body, not at all analogous to the living church.

and then wafter speaks about the false prophets sighn continues in the very next verse (and in the same paragraph )
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
When all this will happen Matthew? Immediately after the tribulation of those days

Amen, God bless

Sun darkening and moon not shining are apocalyptic references used any time a kingdom was destroyed and are not literal. See the book of Isaiah for a few similar references when Egypt was destroyed as well as Babylon.

It's pop-prophecy making millions in movies and pulp books that you've happened upon, and it's rife with error.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's salvation.

John 5 shows Jesus talking about two resurrections. The first is salvation when we hear his voice and come alive into newness of life, as in Romans 6:13 where we are said to be alive from the dead once we're saved, and must pray with that perspective in mind. The second is from the graves and is physical.



I disagree.

The gathering is protection from destruction and wrath -- see the same terms used in reference to Jerusalem at the end of Matt 23, whom HE WOULD have gathered together from trouble, but they refused.

Revelation is not a series of movies of the future. It is symbolic of what would happen after John wrote it, and the symbols are old testament stories that actually occurred literally, but are used as symbols of what would happen in John's future. John was in the same tribulation he wrote about in Revelation. He wrote the book to the early church as his brethren in tribulation. When Jesus spoke to Jerusalem about gathering them together, he said those events would happen in "this generation", which would be the generation he preached to. And the same set of words speaking about gathering together and "this generation" are found in Matt 24 speaking about the church who would be gathered INSTEAD of Jerusalem, "from the four winds". The four winds are the four horsemen that we see called the four spirits/winds in Zechariah 6. Jesus listed the six seals of Revelation 6 in Matth 24. And the first four are the four horsemen of false Christs, wars, famines and death. Tie that with Zech 6 and Rev 6 and see that the four winds he'd gather them from were the four horsemen.



Many trumpet sounds represent different things. Trumpet signaled varying events, like call to war, regathering etc. So, just because we read a trumpet does not mean Resurrection. Read about the seven trumpets in Revelation!

Matt 24 spoke of the first century when NO RESURRECTION would occur.

Jesus was asked about THE SIGN when "these things" would come to pass and the end of the WORLD/AGE would occur, not end of the planet. When they asked about THESE THINGS and the SIGN OF THY COMING, the SIGN was repeated in Mark's and Luke's gospels as the SIGN WHEN THESE THINGS shall come to pass. THESE THINGS refers tot he temple destruction. A COMING of Jesus occurred when the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed. He referred to the temple destruction as a COMING of Himself in Matt 21:40 in speaking of the parable of the vineyard and the wicked husbandmen. Not all comings are the rapture. That's the SECOND COMING not to be confused with the COMING in local destruction in the first century.



That was a coming of destruction ONLY, not for resurrection or rapture. THE SIGN mentioned in Luke 21, Mark 13 and Matt 24 was the sign of the temple destruction. No word of resurrection is plainly mentioned anywhere in those three chapters. People assume it is resurrection, but the resurreciton f 1 Cor 15 is not at all hinted at plainly in those chapters. Tradition has skewed the reference to the temple destruction in Jerusalem to be the resurrection.



No, it is definitely not. Gathering the eagles is destruction. It is a hint of the roman armies using the eagle as the standard that came in use by God's hand to destroy Jerusalem Everything listed by way of Noah entering the ark, lot and the eagles gathering, as well as the good man's house being broken up, all refer to unexpected Destruction only.


Carcase is a dead body, not at all analogous to the living church.


Sun darkening and moon not shining are apocalyptic references used any time a kingdom was destroyed and are not literal. See the book of Isaiah for a few similar references when Egypt was destroyed as well as Babylon.

It's pop-prophecy making millions in movies and pulp books that you've happened upon, and it's rife with error.

I will tell you (maybe) latter about the rest. But fgrom the begining you start wrong
First Resurrection is Rapture (all the Saint from the beginning till the last days saints that will be alive in after the Grate Tribulation:
First resurrection:
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection

Second resurrection :
Revelation 20: 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:[U] and they were judged [/U]every man according to their works.1 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by peter83

I will tell you (maybe) latter about the rest. But fgrom the begining you start wrong
First Resurrection is Rapture (all the Saint from the beginning till the last days saints that will be alive in after the Grate Tribulation:
First resurrection:
Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection

Second resurrection :
Revelation 20: 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:[U] and they were judged [/U]every man according to their works.1 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Brother, I don't think you understand preterists.

They use literal interpretation and when they find a bump on the road they go with allegorical interpretation: they will answer you by telling you that the verse is allegorical just because.

If they lived during the times of David, after David's death, they would have told you that this part: [Psa 16:10b NKJV] 10 ... Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. of the scripture must be allegorical because David died and they will find figurative use of "corruption" in other passages to prove their point, even though the passage in Psalms doesn't have any indication that the sentence is a figure of speech.
Thankfully, Peter interpreted that passage correctly, it was literal:
[Act 13:35-37 NKJV] 35 "Therefore He also says in another [Psalm]: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 "but He whom God raised up saw no corruption.

Preterists have an issue with faith in the Scripture.


Or this scripture:

[Mat 4:13-16 NKJV] 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 15 "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, [By] the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles: 16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."

They may tell you that that's an example why you need to use allegorical, but if you look closely, the people at that time, the original audience of it, could figure out that it was a figure of speech because Galilee had sunlight. They could see that "sat in darkness" and "shadow of death" is referring to their condition. So, after you translate the figure of speech part by the context, the fulfillment of the prophesy was literal, the actual event happened: the hope to their condition shined in the region as Matthew said it.

It is just common sense, obvious meaning, after you figure out the historical context and the grammar, so you could figure out what the original listeners understood (regardless whether they believed it, or whether they fully comprehended it). The Hebrews were not aliens, but regular human beings, and they use figure of speech as we do, and they figure it out by the context as we also do with modern writings. However, preterists will try to find a hidden allegorical meaning to things that don't fit their viewpoint. Preterists don't have a consistent way of interpreting the Scripture, they have a faith issue that needs to be solved first. Arguing will never end otherwise.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother, I don't think you understand preterists.

They use literal interpretation and when they find a bump on the road they go with allegorical interpretation: they will answer you by telling you that the verse is allegorical just because.

If they lived during the times of David, after David's death, they would have told you that this part: [Psa 16:10b NKJV] 10 ... Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. of the scripture must be allegorical because David died and they will find figurative use of "corruption" in other passages to prove their point, even though the passage in Psalms doesn't have any indication that the sentence is a figure of speech.
Thankfully, Peter interpreted that passage correctly, it was literal:
[Act 13:35-37 NKJV] 35 "Therefore He also says in another [Psalm]: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 "but He whom God raised up saw no corruption.

Preterists have an issue with faith in the Scripture.


Or this scripture:

[Mat 4:13-16 NKJV] 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: 15 "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, [By] the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles: 16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death Light has dawned."

They may tell you that that's an example why you need to use allegorical, but if you look closely, the people at that time, the original audience of it, could figure out that it was a figure of speech because Galilee had sunlight. They could see that "sat in darkness" and "shadow of death" is referring to their condition. So, after you translate the figure of speech part by the context, the fulfillment of the prophesy was literal, the actual event happened: the hope to their condition shined in the region as Matthew said it.

It is just common sense, obvious meaning, after you figure out the historical context and the grammar, so you could figure out what the original listeners understood (regardless whether they believed it, or whether they fully comprehended it). The Hebrews were not aliens, but regular human beings, and they use figure of speech as we do, and they figure it out by the context as we also do with modern writings. However, preterists will try to find a hidden allegorical meaning to things that don't fit their viewpoint. Preterists don't have a consistent way of interpreting the Scripture, they have a faith issue that needs to be solved first. Arguing will never end otherwise.

yeap, that`s why i used those two literal meaning passages,were only two resurrections occur in the Bible thank you !