Why Sunday

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Jesus arose the first day of the week.

Not because of any significance to the first day of the week. Rather, the significance was the "third day" after crucifixion. That third day happened to be on the first day of the week that year. The profession of faith in 1 Cor 15 makes no mention of the first day, but rather "the third day".

He appeared to Thomas the next first Day of the week.

John 20:26 shows that He appeared to Thomas on a Monday at the earliest, most likely a Tuesday.

Paul preached the first day in Acts 20:7.

He may have preached ON the first day of the week in that verse but I doubt he "preached the first day" in that verse. lol Anyways, that was a special meeting because he was leaving the next morning (going on a journey on sunday). Besides which common early Christian and first century Jewish custom was to gather for prayer at the end of the Sabbath during a meeting that bridged the end of the Sabbath and the beginning of the first day. Jews call it havdalah (separation), Christians called it Vespers or Lamplighting. It usually included the Lord's Supper or bread breaking and fellowship meal, still common among Sabbath keepers, some Orthodox churches, and most orthodox synagogues.

1 Cor 16 says they were to gather offerings for Paul on the first day.

It was a collection for poor Christians in Jerusalem in anticipation of a prophesied famine, financial business and accounting usually takes place on the first day of the week for Sabbath keepers.

Paul said that he lived AS a Jew to win the Jews, and he preached in synagogues on the sabbath, not to hear a sermon for himself, but to reach the jews gathered together to learn about God, meaning it was not their "church gather".

Gentiles requested and he agreed to preach the gospel to them more in depth, on the next Sabbath. He taught circumcision and uncircumcision aren't what matters but what matters is keeping the commandments of God. He specificly ruled out any commandment breaking as being incompatible with the Christian faith. Living as a Jew does not refer to obeying God's commandments, but refers to his conformity to CUSTOM when in company with Jews (as long as said custom did not include separation from Greek believers).

There is no note about the church keeping sabbath and attending church meetings in anything near or close to the references that refer to the first day of the week that distinctly mention the church and the first day. Why don't we read the church gathered the seventh day? The church gathered Sabbath? We only read of Paul reaching Jews in synagogues on sabbath, and nothing about the actual church being directed and/or said to do things on the first day.

Actually there is a ton of "note" but antisabbatarians ignore it. The mere fact the New Testament thoroughly and consistently refers to the seventh day of the week as "the Sabbath" says a lot. Especially considering non Sabbath keepers don't speak that way unless they are arguing against the Sabbath. The faulty premise underlying all these errors is "if it isn't spelled out in the NT it didn't happen and is not applicable." But this is backwards not only to logic but the NT itself. The proper approach is "unless the NT says otherwise all things remain in place."

If the two references in Acts 20 and 1 Cor 16 were not about church gatherings on the first day, they're still distinctly for the church and on the first day, and nothing similar can be found about sabbath for the church to offset the lean toward First Day worship. It's always only Paul preaching to jews on the sabbath.

It's far too vague to use anything in the New Testament to promote sabbath keeping. Like so many other beliefs, if that were the case there would have been much more elaboration made about it in the epistles and Acts than there is, if it were true.

If the Sabbath had been abrogated or replaced, it would create just as much if not more controversy than the issue of circumcision and the Levitical offerings. Those latter two disputes are detailed thoroughly throughout the NT. The supposed abrogation or modification of the Sabbath? Crickets. Ergo, you have it backwards. The lack of Sabbath polemics in the NT is prima facie evidence it wasn't a debated issue.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If the Sabbath had been abrogated or replaced, it would create just as much if not more controversy than the issue of circumcision and the Levitical offerings. Those latter two disputes are detailed thoroughly throughout the NT. The supposed abrogation or modification of the Sabbath? Crickets. Ergo, you have it backwards. The lack of Sabbath polemics in the NT is prima facie evidence it wasn't a debated issue.

There is much more in Galatians 4 which has always been my main argument as you know. The antecedent for the tutors and governors under which Israel, in times before Christ came, were taught is not pagan calendar days but Gal 3's refernec et law as a schoolmaster.

That alone seals it for me, and these other references are strong supports, far more than there is anything for sabbath day worship of the early church. Far more.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

There is much more in Galatians 4 which has always been my main argument as you know. The antecedent for the tutors and governors under which Israel, in times before Christ came, were taught is not pagan calendar days but Gal 3's refernec et law as a schoolmaster.

That alone seals it for me, and these other references are strong supports, far more than there is anything for sabbath day worship of the early church. Far more.

If the law as a tutor means the 4th commandment need not be obeyed once one becomes a Christian, then not only may the Christian dispense with Sabbath keeping, but they may dispense with every other commandment of God as well, for exactly the same reason.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If the law as a tutor means the 4th commandment need not be obeyed once one becomes a Christian, then not only may the Christian dispense with Sabbath keeping, but they may dispense with every other commandment of God as well, for exactly the same reason.

Strawman because as I explained many times sabbath is fulfilled not replaced or abrogated. The shadow days are gone.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Strawman because as I explained many times sabbath is fulfilled not replaced or abrogated. The shadow days are gone.

Actually it isn't a strawman. You argue law was a tutor therefore we aren't under the tutor therefore we don't keep the Sabbath day holy. The same reasoning applies to everything comprehended under the term "law".

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Actually it isn't a strawman. You argue law was a tutor therefore we aren't under the tutor therefore we don't keep the Sabbath day holy. The sane reasoning applies to everything comprehended under the term "law".

The tutor role was the mundane shadow preparing for the spiritual rest Christ would bring. Fulfilled, again. The concept or principle led to the actuality in the spirit. It made the reality in the spirit easy to understand.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The tutor role was the mundane shadow preparing for the spiritual rest Christ would bring. Fulfilled, again. The concept or principle led to the actuality in the spirit. It made the reality in the spirit easy to understand.

Sounds great! I mean seriously I agree with this. BUT if one concludes from this "therefore we don't have to do what the fourth commandment says to do" then it necessarily applies to every jot, tittle, both tablets of the Big Ten and everything in between - in the same exact way.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

...financial business and accounting usually takes place on the first day of the week for Sabbath keepers.

Brother, would you please give some references regarding that statement? If that's accurate then it brings a new insight to that verse. Thanks.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Thank you mfblume and Esaias for the debate. I'm learning a lot of stuff. I hope you guys do not end up on each other's nerves, though.

Ha! We go at it but brother Blume is one of the good guys. He just needs to come over to my side of the aisle then he shall reach perfection.

Originally Posted by coksiw

Brother, would you please give some references regarding that statement? If that's accurate then it brings a new insight to that verse. Thanks.

I meant that as an observation based on my experience and that of others' I have known. I wasn't saying "the Bible says do your accounting on the first day of the week." Sabbath keeping establishes a certain rhythm to life. It affects how a person views and manages time. I have seen it in my life, my family members, and other people's lives as well. They all have acknowledged Sabbath keeping establishes a certain rhythm and flow if you will to everything. It doesn't happen overnight, necessarily, but ingrains itself into the very fabric of daily life.

When the Sabbath ends, the week is over with. The week's business is over with. A new week begins. New business. Stuff carried over from previously has been paused, and now picks back up as if it were basically a new round in the ring. The first day of the week just fits naturally as the day to plan the week out. That would include taking stock of your money situation and what expenditures you will have. Allocating funds to whatever purposes, etc.

Now granted some folks are just plain random and disorganised anyway, especially financially. But that's more of a "them" issue than a Sabbath or not issue.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Actually there is a ton of "note" but antisabbatarians ignore it. The mere fact the New Testament thoroughly and consistently refers to the seventh day of the week as "the Sabbath" says a lot. Especially considering non Sabbath keepers don't speak that way unless they are arguing against the Sabbath.

I’ve long felt the following verse is especially salient.

Luke 23:56 (AV)
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments;
and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke wrote this years after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and gave us the present tense expression.

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There was a time years back when I was discussing this with Homestead Heritage, and this verse was a central focus. This was years before I understood that they shipwrecked on the devil yahweh (Jupiter), the gibberish yahshua, and an absurd Bible view where they felt the leader was a new Tyndale called to give us a pure English Version, sans corruptions. As they shipwrecked away from the AV.

This is painful, because the Lord Jesus had placed such a wonderful calling on them years back, which,surprisingly, has in fact been fulfilled in part.. The cankerworm came in.

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Originally Posted by Esaias

If the Sabbath had been abrogated or replaced, it would create just as much if not more controversy than the issue of circumcision and the Levitical offerings. Those latter two disputes are detailed thoroughly throughout the NT. The supposed abrogation or modification of the Sabbath? Crickets. Ergo, you have it backwards. The lack of Sabbath polemics in the NT is prima facie evidence it wasn't a debated issue.

This is true, excellent and fundamental.