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  #51  
Old 12-02-2020, 07:11 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
You have proven it to yourself. I proved by scripture the Apostles counted the Church as the woman even the bride of Christ.

As to the overcomers I agree the Church is ideally made up entirely of overcomers. In the end of our lives or the end of days if we are not overcomers it will be a burning lake of fire.

And now let us look around. Are the Churches full of overcomers? Or are there lukewarm? Are there those walking in sin? Walking in heresies?

Why yes. That pretty well describes the Churches of today. We are called to be overcomers but most are not. At present time they are still "in Jesus" at least many of them. Part of Jesus. Part of his body.

In point of time he could "cut them off". Blot their name out of his book of life.

Note here how Jesus makes a distinction between overcomers in the Church and the Church in general.

Rev. 3:1-5

1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Most of the saints in Sardis works were not perfect. Their spiritual walk was ready to die. They were NOT YET DEAD although they had defiled their garments.

Jesus commands them to repent or there would be consequences.

He said in verse 4 there were a FEW who were worthy to walk with him.

A FEW.

He goes on to say HE THAT OVERCOMES.....he would not blot out their name from the book of life.

So think about it. He is ADDRESSING THE CHURCH. He is expecting each ones works to be perfect. Yet in most cases they are not. They are not OVERCOMERS.

A few of them are but not all. Nonetheless they all are a part of the Church still AT THAT TIME.

Yet we can see in this context a distinction between overcomers and those who are not being part of the Church. Those who do not FINALLY overcome will be blotted out of the book of life.

Only OVERCOMERS will not be blotted out. So at present there are overcomers and not overcomers in the Church.

God works with and in his people to make them perfect. To make for himself a glorious Church/Bride. He will one day come and receive such a bride for himself.

If he were to come in our present day there would be very few that would qualify.

Thats where the manchild ministry comes in. Before the resurrection and rapture takes place Jesus has a plan to prepare a people. He will choose a group of "forerunners". Those who have matured to be like Jesus. He will give them a like experience as Paul and John had.

Reporting (spiritually) to the throne of God getting their marching orders from HIM then coming back to feed the woman.

Before Christ returns there must be a glorious bride! A wife having made herself ready! The manchild will assure that there will be such a Church/Bride ready for the bridegroom.
Spiritual Israel and the church are the same. Natural Israel is lost in sin.
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  #52  
Old 12-02-2020, 07:14 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

The man child is most definitely Jesus, but I do find that much of prophecy has dual fulfillment. If it isn’t dual fulfillment, then it is intentional similitude designed by God.
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  #53  
Old 12-02-2020, 07:25 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

The child is definitely the Christ, the woman the godly Israel, and the dragon with the seven heads and ten horns is the Satan working through the seven beast kingdoms of the Gentiles over the ages.
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  #54  
Old 12-02-2020, 07:27 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Spiritual Israel and the church are the same. Natural Israel is lost in sin.
And, the church began as Israel, grafted in the gentiles, breaking down the wall of division, continuing as the church which fulfills the promises made to Abraham, the Israel of God.
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  #55  
Old 12-02-2020, 07:49 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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The man child is most definitely Jesus, but I do find that much of prophecy has dual fulfillment. If it isn’t dual fulfillment, then it is intentional similitude designed by God.
Any secondary meaning added to a prophecy is made up. Prophecy has a specific meaning. Interpretation of prophecy by the readers is error prone.
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  #56  
Old 12-02-2020, 08:10 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Any secondary meaning added to a prophecy is made up. Prophecy has a specific meaning. Interpretation of prophecy by the readers is error prone.
Any secondary fulfillment is conjecture, but I disagree with the idea that it is simply made up. I agree with you that the prophecy was/is specific to the time it is given, but the Bible is much more than a history book. The prophecies in the Bible are very relevant for today, even in the fulfillment. I don’t believe in coincidences, all things happen for a reason.
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  #57  
Old 12-02-2020, 08:15 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Any secondary fulfillment is conjecture, but I disagree with the idea that it is simply made up. I agree with you that the prophecy was/is specific to the time it is given, but the Bible is much more than a history book. The prophecies in the Bible are very relevant for today, even in the fulfillment. I don’t believe in coincidences, all things happen for a reason.
True, I was just pointing out that the "dual meaning" doctrine I was taught is incorrect. As I tested the theory, I see multiple meanings added and the word of prophecy becomes null and void to the audience, as it's original intent is dismissed.
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  #58  
Old 12-02-2020, 09:46 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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True, I was just pointing out that the "dual meaning" doctrine I was taught is incorrect. As I tested the theory, I see multiple meanings added and the word of prophecy becomes null and void to the audience, as it's original intent is dismissed.
A text has only one-meaning.

What you referring to is the doctrine of double (or dual) fulfillment. That doctrine stays that a prophecy could have an initial sort of fulfillment indicating a shadow of a complete fulfillment in the future.
A prophecy is a candidate to be a double fulfillment one if you see that they "almost" got fulfilled in the past but not completely.

You can definitely see it as "incorrect" doctrine and say that, no, they were not fulfilled and there is only one fulfillment. Totally legit, but it is just semantics.
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  #59  
Old 12-02-2020, 11:05 AM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

When I saw the thread title "Manchild Ministry" I thought for a moment that Donald Trump had started a ministry!
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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #60  
Old 12-02-2020, 01:21 PM
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Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
When I saw the thread title "Manchild Ministry" I thought for a moment that Donald Trump had started a ministry!
Maybe it was a revelation???
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