The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Esaias

There is only one grammatical meaning to any text, whether of Scripture or anything else. However, a text can contain within itself multiple layers of principles, having multiple applications.

In regards to prophecy, a prophecy is a revelation of the will and intent of God. Since God does all things by wisdom, a prophecy provides a glimpse into the Divine Reasoning or Wisdom that is the cause of the prophesied event coming to pass. As a result, we can discover the principles that underlie what we call reality. We can discern patterns, several different events following similar patterns, or demonstrating certain principles that are expressed in various prophecies.

Some interpret that to mean "dual" or "multiple fulfillments" of prophecy. I look at it more as multiple layers of truth with applications to many situations, while keeping in mind that a prophecy always has a specific historical event in view, unless otherwise indicated in the text.

They taught us 1 interpretation with many applications, which became many interpretations and many applications. Spiritualization of scripture is the root cause of denominational-isms. They all think something can also mean other things too.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by 1 God

They taught us 1 interpretation with many applications, which became many interpretations and many applications. Spiritualization of scripture is the root cause of denominational-isms. They all think something can also mean other things too.

John 6:63 KJVS
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 3:6 KJVS
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Galatians 3:3 KJVS
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Revelation 2:29 KJVS
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Revelation 1:10 KJVS
[10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.

Enjoy your carnal, physical kingdom.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

John 6:63 KJVS
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 3:6 KJVS
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Galatians 3:3 KJVS
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Revelation 2:29 KJVS
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Revelation 1:10 KJVS
[10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.

Enjoy your physical kingdom.

The contrary to spiritual isn't "physical", but "carnal" and "natural".

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The contrary to spiritual isn't "physical", but "carnal" and "natural".

I fixed it.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

John 6:63 KJVS
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 3:6 KJVS
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Galatians 3:3 KJVS
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Revelation 2:29 KJVS
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Revelation 1:10 KJVS
[10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.

Enjoy your carnal, physical kingdom.

Since the contrary to spiritual is carnal/natural, rather than physical, then a kingdom can be spiritual and physical. Is the church spiritual? Yes. Is the church physical? Yes. How so? Because the church is nothing else than real live physical people led by the Spirit of God.

You are welcome.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Since the contrary to spiritual is carnal/natural, rather than physical, then a kingdom can be spiritual and physical. Is the church spiritual? Yes. Is the church physical? Yes. How so? Because the church is nothing else than real live physical people led by the Spirit of God.

You are welcome.

In my opinion this is the danger of looking at the kingdom or the church in a physical, natural way.

The way you described it reminds me of the old covenant, Brother, we are NO longer under the law. I may misunderstood the way you wrote, it just appeared to me as red flags.

You and I and everyone that is alive and breathing, are a physical, natural human being. If you or I are cut, we will bleed. There is a difference between our natural man and our spiritual man. The physical will breathe its last breathe one day, yet the spiritual man will live forever.

Just because we are part of the body of Christ and we’re breathing the air God created, that doesn’t mean the body of Christ is a physical, natural man. Just because we have been saved through the obedience of the Spirit, and yet all the while we’re alive physically, doesn’t make the Holy Ghost Physical. There is a difference between the physical and the spiritual, there always have and there always will be.

John 3:6 KJVS
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8:1 KJVS
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 14:17 KJVS
[17] For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Meat and Drink are natural, physical things, yet the kingdom of God is NOT that way.

John 18:36 KJVS
[36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

This world is natural, and physical, yet the Kingdom of God is NOT of this world.

This is I how view things, before its EVER written in the natural LAW it was first written Spiritually. Meaning, what happens in the physical realm, it was first started in the spirit.

This is why I say, the USA can go up in flames, and the kingdom of God wont even be touched. The church will continue on, we’re not part of a physical kingdom rather a spiritual one. Some in the next coming years may depart, yet the church goes on, it’s NOT DEPENDENT on the natural law, rather the SPIRITUAL law.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

In my opinion this is the danger of looking at the kingdom or the church in a physical, natural way.

You equate "physical" with "natural". The Bible does not. You are judging things from a non Biblical perspective. The church is a people. Those people are physical people. Yet the church is spiritual. Those people are spiritual, according to the Bible. Therefore, it is entirely Biblical (and thus spiritual) to acknowledge that things can be both spiritual and physical at the same time with no conflict or contradiction.

It is spiritual to be submit one's ideas to the Word of God. It is CARNAL and NATURAL to resist and reject the teachings and statements of God's Word. A lot of people think they are spiritually minded but in reality they are carnally minded. Because they do not submit their thoughts to the Word, but instead persist in worldly nonBiblical thinking.

And it is nonBiblical and worldly to claim that "spiritual must be opposite to physical". That is in fact paganism. It is at the root of all pagan philosophies and religions. And it is contrary to God's Revealed Truth contained in and spelled out by His Word.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You equate "physical" with "natural". The Bible does not. You are judging things from a non Biblical perspective. The church is a people. Those people are physical people. Yet the church is spiritual. Those people are spiritual, according to the Bible. Therefore, it is entirely Biblical (and thus spiritual) to acknowledge that things can be both spiritual and physical at the same time with no conflict or contradiction.

It is spiritual to be submit one's ideas to the Word of God. It is CARNAL and NATURAL to resist and reject the teachings and statements of God's Word. A lot of people think they are spiritually minded but in reality they are carnally minded. Because they do not submit their thoughts to the Word, but instead persist in worldly nonBiblical thinking.

And it is nonBiblical and worldly to claim that "spiritual must be opposite to physical". That is in fact paganism. It is at the root of all pagan philosophies and religions. And it is contrary to God's Revealed Truth contained in and spelled out by His Word.

1 Corinthians 15:44 KJVS
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Brother there not the same. There is a difference.

1 Corinthians 15:50 KJVS
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The natural physical man CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God. However, the SPIRITUAL man can inherit the Kingdom, why? Because its a spiritual kingdom.

There would be no argument if this was under old covenant, yet, the new Covenant brought the fulfillment God minded from the beginning.

2 Corinthians 5:6 KJVS
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

If I’m wrong in my commentary, please correct. Yet, Paul is saying while I’m in the natural, physical man, NOT CARNAL. I am absent from the Lord, how is that? What is causing this absence? It’s the physical, natural man. Remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit, what the spiritual man can.

2 Corinthians 5:8 KJVS
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

In order to be present with the Lord, we need to be absent from the natural, physical man. Now, one can say that these scriptures are referring to, body of sin, and thats a fair argument. Yet, in my opinion it is 2 fold, its like an onion, we’re peeling back the layers.

And all I’ve stated could be summed up in one question.

When God saved you through the experience of Acts 2:38, WHO is saved, the Natural man, or the Spiritual man?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

1 Corinthians 15:44 KJVS
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Brother there not the same. There is a difference.

Did you notice the word "physical" is not in that verse? I earlier pointed out that the proper Biblical contrary to "spiritual" is not "physical", but "natural" or "carnal". The verse is not talking about spiritual vs physical, but spiritual vs natural.

1 Corinthians 15:50 KJVS
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The natural physical man CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God. However, the SPIRITUAL man can inherit the Kingdom, why? Because its a spiritual kingdom.

It doesn't say "the natural physical", it says "flesh and blood" cannot be immortal and enjoy eternal life. Therefore a transformation (change) is required. That is the purpose of the resurrection. It is not merely coming back to life, but is also a change or transformation:

1 Corinthians 15:47-49 KJV
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. [48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. [49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The change is a change from our being like Adam to our being like Christ. Christ was raised as a lifegiving spirit:

1 Corinthians 15:45 KJV
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

We will be like Him when we are resurrected, with a spiritual body. BUT NOTICE:

Luke 24:36-39 KJV
And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. [37] But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. [38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus was resurrected, as a life giving spirit, with a spiritual body, yet having flesh and bones. That is, He was very much PHYSICAL in His resurrected state. Since we are going to be changed to be like Him, we too will be resurrected with a spiritual body but we will be just as "physical" (material) as Him.

There would be no argument if this was under old covenant, yet, the new Covenant brought the fulfillment God minded from the beginning.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. God's original purpose was for man to live forever with God on the earth. That was the intention in Genesis, and it is the climax in Revelation.

2 Corinthians 5:6 KJVS
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

If I’m wrong in my commentary, please correct. Yet, Paul is saying while I’m in the natural, physical man, NOT CARNAL. I am absent from the Lord, how is that? What is causing this absence? It’s the physical, natural man. Remember, flesh and blood cannot inherit, what the spiritual man can.

Paul is saying (in the next verse you quoted, verse 8) that we desire to be present with the Lord, which as you pointed out occurs at the resurrection when the change takes place. Which is when? At His coming:

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 KJV
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

It is not "the man" which you keep inserting and adding to the text, it is the BODY which is transformed at resurrection. We are said to be changed because our body is changed. Just like Jesus. Yet He was still a material "physical" person after resurrecting. And so will we be, too.

In order to be present with the Lord, we need to be absent from the natural, physical man. Now, one can say that these scriptures are referring to, body of sin, and thats a fair argument. Yet, in my opinion it is 2 fold, its like an onion, we’re peeling back the layers.

Did you notice you keep adding the word "man"? You keep dropping the word "body", and inserting "man". You also keep adding the word "physical". You are basically rewriting what the apostle actually said. That changes the meaning. How is this any different than what trinitarians do with "God the Son" or "three PERSONS" etc?

And all I’ve stated could be summed up in one question.

When God saved you through the experience of Acts 2:38, WHO is saved, the Natural man, or the Spiritual man?

When God saved me I ceased to be a natural man and became a spiritual man. The MAN is saved, spirit, soul, and body. A natural man cannot be saved except by ceasing to be a natural man and becoming a spiritual man. What is a natural man?

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

What is a carnal or fleshly man, compared to a spiritual man? What is it to be "in the flesh"?

Romans 8:3-9 KJV
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. [9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

John 6:63 KJVS
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 3:6 KJVS
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Galatians 3:3 KJVS
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Revelation 2:29 KJVS
[29] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


Revelation 1:10 KJVS
[10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.

Enjoy your carnal, physical kingdom.

The Holy Ghost reads the Bible and interprets it in you?