Were tithes ever required by Jesus or the Apostles?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Anything preached legalistically is dead-wrong, sister. We cannot make excuses for it. When giving tithes is an escape from cursing all the while Jesus is our escape from cursing, having been made a curse for us, legalism robs Christ of His position in our lives and replaces Him. To me, that is serious.

Giving should always be done cheerfully. If one is not a cheerful giver, then there is a problem. Often, legalism is that problem.

Well you have a point of course but first of all what is and isn't deemed legalistic or a requirement is subjective.

Secondly, I'm not sure that people are close fisted because tithing is taught as a requirement. Some people just don't want to give and are selfish and self-centered. Simple as that.

Thirdly, I wasn't excusing anything.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Well you have a point of course but first of all what is and isn't deemed legalistic or a requirement is subjective.

Secondly, I'm not sure that people are close fisted because tithing is taught as a requirement. Some people just don't want to give and are selfish and self-centered. Simple as that.

Thirdly, I wasn't excusing anything.

When I was in the UPC I tithed and gave.

But when guys like Jack Cunningham at a district meeting pressured to give.....it put me on the spot.

I would not give because I felt pressured.

But now I realize tithing is not required or commanded nor will one be cursed if they don't tithe.

I was drilled for almost twenty years about tithing and "shall a man rob God"? doctrine.

It makes me question the UPCI and it's doctrines.

Because to be so "Full Of Truth" there is a lot of false teachings.

And UPC will not budge from anything traditional.....

Truth needs to be truth....

If tithing is not an Apostles doctrine, why teach it?

Why not just preach that it is a tradition to pay tithes....but it is not a biblical requirement to be saved or to be a member of the church.

Why not teach to give with out pressure or guilt? Thats the way the Apostles taught it.

Give and it shall be given....NOT "give or you are robbing God"

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by COOPER

When I was in the UPC I tithed and gave.

But when guys like Jack Cunningham at a district meeting pressured to give.....it put me on the spot.

I would not give because I felt pressured.

But now I realize tithing is not required or commanded nor will one be cursed if they don't tithe.

I was drilled for almost twenty years about tithing and "shall a man rob God"? doctrine.

It makes me question the UPCI and it's doctrines.

Because to be so "Full Of Truth" there is a lot of false teachings.

And UPC will not budge from anything traditional.....

Truth needs to be truth....

If tithing is not an Apostles doctrine, why teach it?

Why not just preach that it is a tradition to pay tithes....but it is not a biblical requirement to be saved or to be a member of the church.

Why not teach to give with out pressure or guilt? Thats the way the Apostles taught it.

Give and it shall be given....NOT "give or you are robbing God"

Coop, I think you make sweeping generalizations about everyone in the UPC which may or not be true of each and every UPC preacher. But I can agree with your point that tithing is not taught in the NT. Giving is taught but tithing isn't.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Coop, I think you make sweeping generalizations about everyone in the UPC which may or not be true of each and every UPC preacher. But I can agree with your point that tithing is not taught in the NT. Giving is taught but tithing isn't.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by COOPER

When I was in the UPC I tithed and gave.

But when guys like Jack Cunningham at a district meeting pressured to give.....it put me on the spot.

I would not give because I felt pressured.

But now I realize tithing is not required or commanded nor will one be cursed if they don't tithe.

I was drilled for almost twenty years about tithing and "shall a man rob God"? doctrine.

It makes me question the UPCI and it's doctrines.

Because to be so "Full Of Truth" there is a lot of false teachings.

And UPC will not budge from anything traditional.....

Truth needs to be truth....

If tithing is not an Apostles doctrine, why teach it?

Why not just preach that it is a tradition to pay tithes....but it is not a biblical requirement to be saved or to be a member of the church.

Why not teach to give with out pressure or guilt? Thats the way the Apostles taught it.

Give and it shall be given....NOT "give or you are robbing God"

The existence of preachers and congregations that use rules and regulations to turn principles into legalism do not negate the validity and beneficience of the principles.

If your local UPCI #314 enforces a strict dress code, and Sister Pharisee has run off countless people with the gimlet eye she casts upon non-regulation apparel, it DOES NOT MEAN THAT MODESTY IS NOT A GODLY PRINCIPLE WORTHY OF PURSUIT, PRACTICE, AND PREACHING. All you can truly say is that local #314 has taken a wrong turn.

It's the same deal with tithing. I, too, have had membership in churches where I was asked if I was going to rob God. And I have had membership in churches where it was taught that grateful and faithful Christians tithed from the fullness of their hearts, not from fear. I was blessed for my tithing in both places. What's up with that?

Defense of principles is not defense of legalism.


And as far as this business of criticizing people who question tithing as being people who have trouble with authority, I reject and rebuke this mindset. Different people make progress in their faith at different rates in different areas of Christian life. Somebody who was raised in a non-religious home, such as myself, who heard their father repeatedly say that all preachers were hypocritical money-grubbing scoundrels, is going to have more trouble entering in to complete faith in this area than someone raised in a deacon's home. Somebody who grew up in a legalistic church, but has moved or received a new pastor, struggles as they internally confront their earliest teachings with new concepts.

The appropriate response to such individuals is compassion and prayer, with perhaps a little mentoring thrown in to boot. Not the quickdraw application of the label of 'rebel.' God didn't throw you over to a reprobate mind over your long-term peccadillos, did he? God has enough grace for everybody.

The bible is vivid and clear about what circumstances warrant excommunication.

It's good to question paradigms, but a lot of things that are presently in place are in place for a good reason, and questioners need to be open to that possibility in their quests, too.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

The existence of preachers and congregations that use rules and regulations to turn principles into legalism do not negate the validity and beneficience of the principles.

If your local UPCI #314 enforces a strict dress code, and Sister Pharisee has run off countless people with the gimlet eye she casts upon non-regulation apparel, it DOES NOT MEAN THAT MODESTY IS NOT A GODLY PRINCIPLE WORTHY OF PURSUIT, PRACTICE, AND PREACHING. All you can truly say is that local #314 has taken a wrong turn.

It's the same deal with tithing. I, too, have had membership in churches where I was asked if I was going to rob God. And I have had membership in churches where it was taught that grateful and faithful Christians tithed from the fullness of their hearts, not from fear. I was blessed for my tithing in both places. What's up with that?

Defense of principles is not defense of legalism.


And as far as this business of criticizing people who question tithing as being people who have trouble with authority, I reject and rebuke this mindset. Different people make progress in their faith at different rates in different areas of Christian life. Somebody who was raised in a non-religious home, such as myself, who heard their father repeatedly say that all preachers were hypocritical money-grubbing scoundrels, is going to have more trouble entering in to complete faith in this area than someone raised in a deacon's home. Somebody who grew up in a legalistic church, but has moved or received a new pastor, struggles as they internally confront their earliest teachings with new concepts.

The appropriate response to such individuals is compassion and prayer, with perhaps a little mentoring thrown in to boot. Not the quickdraw application of the label of 'rebel.' God didn't throw you over to a reprobate mind over your long-term peccadillos, did he? God has enough grace for everybody.

The bible is vivid and clear about what circumstances warrant excommunication.

It's good to question paradigms, but a lot of things that are presently in place are in place for a good reason, and questioners need to be open to that possibility in their quests, too.

Rebuke duly noted.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Well you have a point of course but first of all what is and isn't deemed legalistic or a requirement is subjective.

Secondly, I'm not sure that people are close fisted because tithing is taught as a requirement. Some people just don't want to give and are selfish and self-centered. Simple as that.

Thirdly, I wasn't excusing anything.

I agree with you that giving is something we should never regret doing. I think that is your point, and I agree.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree with you that giving is something we should never regret doing. I think that is your point, and I agree.

Not only not regret but not resent.

Giving is usually always an option. We can give or not. We can give beyond what we feel is our ability and trust God to supply, or we give what we know we can but as generously as we can as well. It's always our choice.

You can never go wrong by giving to God. He always blesses.

I also believe in good stewardship - that we take care of what God gives us and entrusts into our care. I don't believe that we should be "foolish" in giving. I've seen some people get swept up in the "emotion" of a moment and make pledges that they'll never keep. I've also known what it is to have God speak to me and tell me how much I need to give or if I should. So we need to keep our ears and hearts tuned to the prompting of the Holy Ghost in regard to our giving as well.

I thank God for people who are able and willing to "hear" the voice of God even when it comes to the aspect of giving and Christian stewardship and I bless those who have blessed me with their own giving at times when I was in need.

I've known people too who have the "gift" of financial giving. They're such a huge blessing to the work of God!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Not only not regret but not resent.

RIGHT!