What's your view on Hell?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by 1 God

There is not even a hint in the region of the passage that it is remotely a parable. If there was, I would concede. It does not implicate just greedy men, but mistreatment of others by ignoring them. The book of James calls it out too.

What do you consider "hint"?

[1 God]

Originally Posted by coksiw

What do you consider "hint"?

Parables are for the spiritual to understand and the unspiritual to not understand. Anyone can understand the rich man/Lazarus scenario. It was not hidden from the hardened hearts. This passage has zero references as per the actual parables that are described elsewhere.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Parables are for the spiritual to understand and the unspiritual to not understand. Anyone can understand the rich man/Lazarus scenario.

Except you, apparently.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Except you, apparently.

There actually wasn’t a certain rich man....There actually wasn’t a certain beggar named Lazarus...? Is that what you think Jesus was thinking about while telling of this event?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Parables are for the spiritual to understand and the unspiritual to not understand. Anyone can understand the rich man/Lazarus scenario. It was not hidden from the hardened hearts. This passage has zero references as per the actual parables that are described elsewhere.

Here is a counterexample to your definition:

Mat 21:33-45 NKJV - 33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 "Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 "And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 "Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 "Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 "But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 "So they took him and cast [him] out of the vineyard and killed [him]. 40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?" 41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease [his] vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes' ? 43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 "And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.

The chief priests and Pharisees, who we agree are those with "hardened hearts", were able to understand the parable.

Could you explain how this aligns with your definition of parable?

[1 God]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Here is a counterexample to your definition:

Mat 21:33-45 NKJV - 33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 "Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 "And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 "Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 "Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 "But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 "So they took him and cast [him] out of the vineyard and killed [him]. 40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?" 41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease [his] vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes' ? 43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 "And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.

The chief priests and Pharisees, who we agree are those with "hardened hearts", were able to understand the parable.

Could you explain how this aligns with your definition of parable?

What do the 1st 3 words say? Now, are these 3 words in the rich man/Lazarus explanation of Jesus?

To answer your question. Mark 4:11-12

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by 1 God

What do the 1st 3 words say? Now, are these 3 words in the rich man/Lazarus explanation of Jesus?

To answer your question. Mark 4:11-12

No you didn’t answer my question, you just dodged it. You gave me a definition based on whether it was hidden to the “hardened hearts”. I showed you a counter-example and asked you if you could explain it. If you can’t then your definition is wrong, and then you truly don’t know what a parable is, so you are not in the position to keep saying that the Lazarus story is not a parable.
I hope this thread makes you go and read more and learn.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by coksiw

No you didn’t answer my question, you just dodged it. You gave me a definition based on whether it was hidden to the “hardened hearts”. I showed you a counter-example and asked you if you could explain it. If you can’t then your definition is wrong, and then you truly don’t know what a parable is, so you are not in the position to keep saying that the Lazarus story is not a parable.
I hope this thread makes you go and read more and learn.

The Lazarus story is not a parable. Only a small minority of new age believers are teaching that hell is not a place of torment and the story of Lazarus is a parable. This originated in the teachings of Charles Russell. It is just reaching into faux apostolic circles now. We can believe what we want, but I will always believe that Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot etc. went straight to hell. And no, the Pharisees did not understand the spiritual teachings of Jesus. They only heard them and parts of them were vaguely understood. Note, when Jesus said destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days. The Pharisees heard it but they distorted it. This was their MO.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.