Interesting Trinitarian Statement - trithestic?

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

There is a problem with your assessment of what trinnys believe. It is their own creed.

One God, three persons.

Coequal, coeternal, coexistent.

Doesn't sound like a different understanding. Sounds like a different doctrine.

Originally Posted by Chan

Trinitarians didn't start using the word "person" of "persons" in the trinity until it came to exist in the English language (which did not exist at the time the Nicene fathers formulated the Nicene and Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creeds). The Nicene and Ante-Nicene fathers used the Greek word prosopon or the Latin word persona to individually describe Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the fifth century, Cyril insisted that hypostasis should be used in the places of prosopon, contrary to the way hypostasis is used in Hebrews 1:3 for God alone and not individually for Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by Chan

Which of the early Creeds (the Nicene, Nicene-Constantinopolitan) says "one God, three persons" or "co-equal, co-eternal, co-existent"? Quoting from the Athanasian Creed (which was not written by Athanasius and didn't even come about until a couple of centuries later) doesn't count.

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

You know I have read the creed and talk with many people that have studied on it. There is a common denominator in these discussions. Most of them believe that when it is using the term "three persons" that it is accually meant to be that the word "persons" should have been manifestaions. That it was not intended to be the word "persons" as we understand it today. Like you, MOW and I are three different people. It was intended to mean three offices or manifestations.
Also with the Co's, it was intended to be that the offices of God are Coequal, Coeternal, and Coexistent from the mindset that if Jesus is Father, Son and Spirit that He did not stop being the Father when He came as Jesus and was never the Spirit until Jesus died. It accually means that God is all the Co's because He is all of the offices, manifestations, persons, forms, etc. all at one time. It is not intended that there is three individual bodies 1 God, 2 Jesus, 3 Spirit. It is accually saying that He can exist in all forms at all times.

But Brother, if they may mean to agree with our thinking why are they so vehemently predisposed to call us a cult because of our view on the Godhead? The reason is that modern trinitarianism views the term "persons" to represent what we normally think of a person as. Distinction. Not in manifestation - but in presence of being.

We can all talk about what was ORIGINALLY MEANT by trinitarians but the simple truth is we are all left with what is presently accepted by modern trinitarians. That is the One God-three persons ideal. Coequal, coexistent, coeternal.

Surely none of you deny the reality that orthodox trinitarianism accepts the notion of God in three persons?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

But Brother, if they may mean to agree with our thinking why are they so vehemently predisposed to call us a cult because of our view on the Godhead? The reason is that modern trinitarianism views the term "persons" to represent what we normally think of a person as. Distinction. Not in manifestation - but in presence of being.

We can all talk about what was ORIGINALLY MEANT by trinitarians but the simple truth is we are all left with what is presently accepted by modern trinitarians. That is the One God-three persons ideal. Coequal, coexistent, coeternal.

Surely none of you deny the reality that orthodox trinitarianism accepts the notion of God in three persons?

Just as alot of oneness people think the doctrine of the trinity is damnable, because that is what we are taught, they do it the same way. They are taught the we deny the Sonship of Jesus, etc. Of course we don't, but that does not stop them from being taught we do.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Just as alot of oneness people think the doctrine of the trinity is damnable, because that is what we are taught, they do it the same way. They are taught the we deny the Sonship of Jesus, etc. Of course we don't, but that does not stop them from being taught we do.

So you also deny that they believe in God in three persons, blessed trinity?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Just as alot of oneness people think the doctrine of the trinity is damnable, because that is what we are taught, they do it the same way. They are taught the we deny the Sonship of Jesus, etc. Of course we don't, but that does not stop them from being taught we do.

It think the doctrine of the Trinity is from seducing spirits not because someone told me but because I've searched this doctrine out on my own. We aren't all as gullible as you make us out to be. We are the ones who are responsible for knowing what is true. The ministry can only go so far.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

It think the doctrine of the Trinity is from seducing spirits not because someone told me but because I've searched this doctrine out on my own. We aren't all as gullible as you make us out to be. We are the ones who are responsible for knowing what is true. The ministry can only go so far.

No you are wrong. If we are responsible for knowing the truth and spreading the gospel and we can only do so much then God would never come back. When His name is preached to the whole world then the end will come.

Were you "seduced" into almost believing in the Trinity? Who seduced you? This thing is not about seduction. You see it or you don't. You see things are right or you don't. It is that simple.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Were you "seduced" into almost believing in the Trinity? Who seduced you? This thing is not about seduction. You see it or you don't. You see things are right or you don't. It is that simple.

Almost.

I thought it was a man and his intellect but in truth it was a spirit compelling me into false doctrine. This is something that God showed me in a dream. Take it or leave it. When I first had the dream and a sister in the church interpreted part of it (this is someone who doesn't delve into dream interpretation whatsoever) , I thought 'no way, I'm solid on what I believe' but when it came to pass and my ground was literally shaking, I knew that God had forewarned me.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Almost.

I thought it was a man and his intellect but in truth it was a spirit compelling me into false doctrine. This is something that God showed me in a dream. Take it or leave it. When I first had the dream and a sister in the church interpreted part of it (this is someone who doesn't delve into dream interpretation whatsoever) , I thought 'no way, I'm solid on what I believe' but when it came to pass and my ground was literally shaking, I knew that God had forewarned me.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I will take it God can do anything. That may have been your fight but not everyone may fight the same stuff, ya feel?

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

But Brother, if they may mean to agree with our thinking why are they so vehemently predisposed to call us a cult because of our view on the Godhead? The reason is that modern trinitarianism views the term "persons" to represent what we normally think of a person as. Distinction. Not in manifestation - but in presence of being.

We can all talk about what was ORIGINALLY MEANT by trinitarians but the simple truth is we are all left with what is presently accepted by modern trinitarians. That is the One God-three persons ideal. Coequal, coexistent, coeternal.

Surely none of you deny the reality that orthodox trinitarianism accepts the notion of God in three persons?

What was originally meant is the only correct version of the trinity doctrine. I agree that most modern trinitarians think of "persons" and use it in a way that is synonymous with "beings" but that is not what the original doctrine taught. I agree that many modern statements of faith use phrases like "co-equal, co-eternal divine persons" but such developments came not from the Nicene and Ante-Nicene fathers but by subsequent theologians who changed the doctrine (such as Cyril insisting that "hypostasis" be used individually for Father, Son and Holy Spirit even though that isn't how Hebrews 1:3 uses it).

I do deny that orthodox trinitarianism accepts the notion of God in three persons because the English language didn't exist when the orthodox doctrine (as opposed to Orthodox doctrine) was developed in the first four centuries A.D. and "persons" is specifically an English word.