Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Why does the UPCI or other organizations need to stop doing what they’ve been doing? It seems like you’re trying to change an organization, how about trying to influence an individual.

The UPCI, WPF, AMF, etc… are man made organizations, they’re structured like the pyramid. What else do you expect from a man made organization? Do we expect something greater? Why, because they believe in Acts 2:38, One God so on and so forth.

We can complain about the bylaws of an organization, however do not become a part of it. You’re not saved because of a membership, you’re saved by his Spirit.

I used those examples as a way to say, man changes, man says one thing today and something different tomorrow. Maybe one day the UPCI changes its stance on giving. You may not believe in tithing today, but maybe someday you will. Time will tell….

I consider the UPCI, WPF, etc... people my brethren also. I have no problem with organized efforts, and fellowship. There is no problem with reforms if it makes us align better with the Biblical blueprint, but also, nothing wrong with determining what our true core beliefs are that unites us, and the ones that we allow variances about.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I consider the UPCI, WPF, etc... people my brethren also. I have no problem with organized efforts, and fellowship. There is no problem with reforms if it makes us align better with the Biblical blueprint, but also, nothing wrong with determining what our true core beliefs are that unites us, and the ones that we allow variances about.

That’s fine.

Then the UPCI, WPF are going to structure that organization to support and fund their beliefs that best suits their organization. And a main belief is tithing or giving. They’re not going to want apples and grapes to pay for their airplane travels, or send rams skins to help build a church in the foreign missions.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

That’s fine.

Then the UPCI, WPF are going to structure that organization to support and fund their beliefs that best suits their organization. And a main belief is tithing or giving. They’re not going to want apples and grapes to pay for their airplane travels, or send rams skins to help build a church in the foreign missions.

I see your sarcasm but I have never said I wanted tithing to be produce. I don’t believe that’s even applicable to outside Israel, or even inside Israel after thr cross and the ending of the Levitical priesthood.

I have no problem whatsoever to fund initiatives and teachers with money. My only problem is the falsehood behind the illegitimate 10% tax, and the lack of compassion resulting from that falsehood on the low income people (elders and disabled people living off social security, low income families, broken families, etc…) that are banned from participating, and made feel guilty, and are robbed from their necessities.

I know many Pastors are indeed compassionate and overlook failures to pay tithes and don’t preach hard on it. But many are not. I prefer the falsehood is done with and giving goes back to what the NT intended. I believe Oneness Pentecostalism needs to break from that abusive tradition. The organizations change or good Holiness non-full-preterist alternatives show up so saints can escape from that.

[Evang.Benincasa]

How did tithing come into the UPC?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How did tithing come into the UPC?

You mean NT tithing of all income? My best guess is from when joining with the PAW.

At the beginning of the Asuza revival Seumour was very critical of preachers earning salaries, even from tithing (or accusing them of preaching for money). But towards the end, he was a lot "friendlier" to the concept, and even testified of some tongues and interpretations mandating it (year 1908):

A man 83 years of age, who had preached the Gospel for 40 years the best
he could and with the blessing of the Lord on his labors, received the baptism
of the Holy Ghost when the fire first fell. He came back lately and said that
this had been the best year of all his life in the blessing of the Lord. He
had had more joy and real salvation than in all the 40 years of his ministry.
The power of God came on him, and he reeled like a drunken man. It was as
on the Day of Pentecost, when Peter said, "These are not drunken as ye
suppose, but this is that." He spoke in tongues, which was interpreted:
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat
in Mine house, and prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will
not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing that there
shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for
your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruit of your ground; neither shall
your vine cast her fruit before the time, said the Lord of Hosts." Mal.
3:10-11. This precious brother was so deaf he could not hear a testimony unless
the person was close to him; but the Lord opened his ears, and he now hears
every thing.

So, the tithing was kind of a strong concept from the beginning of the American Pentecostal movement.

As contrast, the Apostolic movements (oneness, Acts 2:38) oustide of the USA, didn't have tithing as a core doctrine, but slowly, over the years, the UPCI traveling around the world convinced many of those ministers to join the UPCI and depart from their original Apostolic Movement.

Here is an example from "To the end of the Earth" book from Bernard:

The Yugoslav Apostolics didn’t believe in ties (because they were excessive ornamentation) or tithes (because there was no explicit New Testament command).

That book is an interesting read, BTW.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You mean NT tithing of all income? My best guess is from when joining with the PAW.

At the beginning of the Asuza revival Seumour was very critical of preachers earning salaries, even from tithing (or accusing them of preaching for money). But towards the end, he was a lot "friendlier" to the concept, and even testified of some tongues and interpretations mandating it (year 1908):



So, the tithing was kind of a strong concept from the beginning of the American Pentecostal movement.

As contrast, the Apostolic movements (oneness, Acts 2:38) oustide of the USA, didn't have tithing as a core doctrine, but slowly, over the years, the UPCI traveling around the world convinced many of those ministers to join the UPCI and depart from their original Apostolic Movement.

Here is an example from "To the end of the Earth" book from Bernard:



That book is an interesting read, BTW.

Basically, what I have seen is that the modern tithing doctrine is mainly an American preachers thing, which lures preachers because it ensures a cash flow and removes some uncertanties about it. Then, it has been exported strongly to other nations, which really, "The American preachers are here, who doesn't want join them? they got the cash to do projects!" In other countries, joining the Americans means larger chance of cash flow, and greater fellowship. So, smaller scale Apostolic Movements have been absorbed by larger organizations, and that translates to compliance with their Articles of Faith.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by coksiw

You mean NT tithing of all income? My best guess is from when joining with the PAW.

At the beginning of the Asuza revival Seumour was very critical of preachers earning salaries, even from tithing (or accusing them of preaching for money). But towards the end, he was a lot "friendlier" to the concept, and even testified of some tongues and interpretations mandating it (year 1908):



So, the tithing was kind of a strong concept from the beginning of the American Pentecostal movement.

As contrast, the Apostolic movements (oneness, Acts 2:38) oustide of the USA, didn't have tithing as a core doctrine, but slowly, over the years, the UPCI traveling around the world convinced many of those ministers to join the UPCI and depart from their original Apostolic Movement.

Here is an example from "To the end of the Earth" book from Bernard:



That book is an interesting read, BTW.

So no one actually knows where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
We are just led to believe they just adopted tithing from other Pentecostals up the line from them in their lineage. In other words, Elder so and so did it so they just accepted it. The teaching being a good way to get paid, put food on the table and keep the lights and heat on in the church building. It looks like we narrow this subject down to Apostolics outside the USA didn’t do tithing. Therefore since Andrew Urshan came from Persia when did he convert to tithing? Anyone have information on this?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So no one actually knows where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
We are just led to believe they just adopted tithing from other Pentecostals up the line from them in their lineage. In other words, Elder so and so did it so they just accepted it. The teaching being a good way to get paid, put food on the table and keep the lights and heat on in the church building. It looks like we narrow this subject down to Apostolics outside the USA didn’t do tithing. Therefore since Andrew Urshan came from Persia when did he convert to tithing? Anyone have information on this?

It’s in the 1952 AOF.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So no one actually knows where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
We are just led to believe they just adopted tithing from other Pentecostals up the line from them in their lineage. In other words, Elder so and so did it so they just accepted it. The teaching being a good way to get paid, put food on the table and keep the lights and heat on in the church building. It looks like we narrow this subject down to Apostolics outside the USA didn’t do tithing. Therefore since Andrew Urshan came from Persia when did he convert to tithing? Anyone have information on this?

For what I can understand from secondary sources, Andrew Urshan wasn't even Jesus' name Onesses Pentecostal but after he came to USA. So his ministry really evolved in the USA, so at some point he had to embrace the AoF that included tithing.