1Co11.2-16. Instincts. The Cover of Shame.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

I wasnt attempting to disprove anything or prove anything really. I was simply making an observation on the nature of creation vs the will of the Spirit which seems to lead man into behaving as if he has a different nature...and apparently with other things He created as well.

Is it possible that the "nature of creation" is actually in line with the will of the Spirit, but the problem is people are not actually operating according to their created nature, but rather a corrupted version of it? So that regeneration isn't so much about getting a new nature that is "better" than the one God originally created a person with, but instead is about getting a new nature that is actually what the original nature was supposed to be?

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is it possible that the "nature of creation" is actually in line with the will of the Spirit, but the problem is people are not actually operating according to their created nature, but rather a corrupted version of it? So that regeneration isn't so much about getting a new nature that is "better" than the one God originally created a person with, but instead is about getting a new nature that is actually what the original nature was supposed to be?

Paul mentions 'nature' in 1Co11, so nature is somewhat related to this thread. Paul also refers to creation, and so a discussion on creation would also be related. But a detailed discussion on creation, the nature of Man, and the will of the Spirit, would have a better home in its own thread, rather than within a '1Co11' thread, don't you agree?

[donfriesen1]

Though seemingly not directly related to 1Co11, yet at its root the following is.

Eph4 shows Paul writing 'Till we all come in the unity of the faith'. Saying so, he shows that the early church was not united on every point.

But in the same chapter he also says 'One Lord, one faith, one baptism'. They were united in the essentials but not peripherals. Knowing Eph4 belies that which many say about the early Church being totally united in doctrine.

Paul elsewhere unwittingly, perhaps knowingly, describes a God who provides words of instruction (doctrine) which can be interpreted differently by different people. Read on, both here and in Ro14 + 15.

Does God do so purposely? Apparently, YES, as the Author of the Book can make no mistakes. Some Apostolics like to think of God as always, emphasis on always, clearly providing every doctrine. God is a God of Light and not murkiness, it is said, always providing perfect light for perfect doctrine. But Paul, through Ro14; 15.1-7 shows us this just is not so in every area.

But people/Apostolics prefer a world without the uncertainty of murkiness. Preachers sometimes teach using methods that demonstrate that God is absolutely clear on every docrine, while Paul shows contrary - that he is not. Some Pastors present all doctrines as perfect, coming from perfect light. Any contradicting these doctrines are set aside, both in mind and in practical social ways, showing their rejection of what Ro14 teaches takes place. (Eph4 shows Paul writing 'Till we all come in the unity of the faith'. Saying so, he admits that the early church was not united on every point. But in the same chapter he also says 'One Lord, one faith, one baptism'. There are no alternate possibilities when a doctrine is described as 'one'. These 'one' doctrines stand incontrovertibly as pure light.)

Pastors may set aside those in their congregation/team who would teach an area of Ro14-kind-of-doctrine different than they do. These then are not provided as many opportunities to minister or perhaps denied leadership roles. This is contrary to Paul's Ro14 instruction. Paul says 'to receive, judge not, etc'. Paul's teaching/attitude is: if you don't believe the same as me on peripherals you can still be on my ministry team.

Not many Biblical topics receive great amounts of words on one page. This topic has. It is over a chapter in length. In spite of this, it is not part of some Pastors' governance methodology. Changes need to be made. The governance methodology of Paul needs to be incorporated in order to be a NT church fully functioning by NT rules. There are Leaders who tolerate no variance of unity with them and they are applauded as strong leaders who should be emulated, while they contravene Paul's Ro14 instruction for church governance.

One particular area of scripture which could be described as a Ro14-kind-of-doctrine is 1Co11. It has been described countless times by many scholars as the single most-difficult Biblical passage to get a clear understanding of. Yet some Apostolic leaders get to teaching, and their presentation of it is as if pure light through and through - undeniable Truth. Do not dare to question their view, for you will be labelled as anti-Biblical and anti-God.

Those who take this approach should be reminded of Ro14; 15.1-7. Heb6 does not show the topic of 1Co11 as one of the first principles of the doctrine of Christ. Not making the cut for Heb6 shows it as making the making the cut for Ro14. Those Pastors/leaders, who may set aside in mind and practice those others for believing differently than they, by doing so have shown they believe it should be in Heb6 as a first principle.

God and the writers of the NT do not. Their opinion on the matter is shown questioned by the actions/attitudes of those who do. By practice, the Word is shown questioned.

Righteous zeal for the practice of all the Word of God (including 1Co11) has led to an oversight in the practice of other areas (Ro14). Corrections must be made for today's church to correctly reflect the NT which Apostolics passionately want to reflect.