Discrepancy in Church Practice

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Dom was responding to this:Originally Posted by donfriesen1 View Post
When Paul tells all to accept and not reject others holding contrary conclusions on some topics, he makes no indication at all that they must later accept the true doctirne.

We have an entire library of Pauline epistles to be able to show us what Paul is trying to convey to his churches. In Romans 14 and 15:1-2, Paul urges mature believers to accept those who are immature who hold different opinions regarding matters like meat used in demonic worship 1 Corinthians 10:20. Or observing days which they would like to place special emphasis on.

The Apostle refers to them as the "weak in faith." Paul emphasizes that since these believers are accountable to God, the more mature elders should not pass judgment on them for their personal opinions. In this specific context, the focus is on maintaining ecclesiastical fellowship and unity despite differing opinions, not on the acceptance of outright false teachings. We can also conclude through mere logic, and understanding of the Pauline writings that being "weak" ἀσθενέω, which is defined in the English as being contemptible, inefficient, to doubt, to hesitate, to be afflicted, to be weak, infirm, deficient in strength. Is not the Apostle's wish for the weak in the faith saint of God, to remain weak in the faith! In Ephesians 4:11-13, Paul teaches how Jesus gives specific elders who hold the titles, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers to the church to equip believers for ministry. Constructing the Body of Christ. Guiding the church toward unity in faith and knowledge, maturing into the fullness of Christ. To say that the wish of the Apostle Paul is that "weak in the faith" brethren were ok to remain that way for an unlimited amount of their time in the church, is false. For you who claim to desire a word-serving position to believe that "weak in the faith" saints should continue as such, is just so sad.

Therefore we can clearly conclude that Paul's conclusion is, mature elders should accept the "weak in faith" and not pass final judgment on "personal opinions." The ultimate goal of the church's structure and teaching ministry is to help all believers grow, mature, and reach the "fullness of Christ," thereby moving past a state of spiritual weakness in the faith.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

He indicates he accepts both as good. It is a strained effort to explain Ro14 the way Dom has described.

Actually it isn't a strain at all. It is pretty simple when someone doesn't have any agenda. Just tell the truth and shame the Devil. The scripture is pretty clear that Paul is trying to stop experienced seasoned elders from destroying what little faith was left in those who are labeled as "weak in the faith." Teaching that those who were "weak in the faith" to remain for an indefinite amount of time that way, is soul sickening.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

But it is refreshing to see he makes efforts to make theological arguments.
Thx, Dom. Good theological discussion here. Very applicable to the thread and Ro14. No one should disagree much with what you have written here.

How arrogant of you to say so. Keep up the good work. You always remind me that we should thank Pastor Doe every day for sending you off on your way.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Seeing what you've said here, and not responding to what I've said in post 1, nor to the linked commentary, makes me think you missed understanding what I say. You either do this purposely or not. I wish I knew which.

Well, Don, you can't be the judge of that. The reason being, is that you are blinded by your religious narcissistic behavior. You are right, and Pastor Doe is wrong. The UPCI is wrong for not taking your side. You want us to agree with you that Pastor Doe is not obeying Romans 14, and 15. You want us to agree with you, that Pastor Doe should allow you to climb behind HIS pulpit and practice what you believe Jude 3-4 to mean for you. Anyone here could only give you their honest opinion on your "hypothetical?" Look, I believe that Romans and Corinthians are dealing with what I have already posted numerous times. The way you "claim" Romans 14 to mean, we would expect that you would leave it at that. Even not passing judgement on Pastor Doe and the UPCI. But, it seems to me that YOU don't even follow what you believe Romans 14 to be teaching. Can you say "Don is a 24 karat gold hypocrite?" Don you my boy is hot mess.

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Some who write in this thread, to defend a view that Ro14 can only be concluded to only show Paul writing about a 'weak vs strong saint', may be helped to believe in my conclusions, when they are encouraged to 'look back in mind', further than just surface reading of Ro14. Focussing just on the words of the text of Ro14 may miss the events that had come before its writing. The supposition of the reasons for the actions of the weak saint, is also a part of this same 'looking back in mind' process. It was said that a weak conscience directs the Ro14 saint's beliefs/actions. It is logical to assume this, but it is an assumption. But 'looking in mind' at any of the other things of Ro14, also leads to other logical conclusions. This thread is about them.

Don, you are clearly saying that the Pauline epistles are subjective. Hence your strong defense that a weak in the faith believer is ok to remain that way indefinitely. Yet, blasphemous is any teaching which claims the Pauline epistles are to be taken subjectively. The Apostle Peter confirms my thoughts on this, when he wrote; and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. That's you Don, that is exactly what you are proposing in all your posts. Paul is subjective, God is subjective, my lands, you must think the way to eternal life is broad and the gate is wide which leads to eternal life, and many will find it. Pastor Doe most certainly called you an Uber.