Show Me the Money

SDG · #1 07-12-2007, 10:48 PM

[quote=Praxeas;183380]What do you mean by hit and run fashion? I posted these earlier and nobody replied...how am I running? I don't even know why you have to take an attitude if you are a honest individual who wants to discuss scriptures and wants the truth. I didn't post anything about you personally

Quote:

As I pointed out before I point out again. This is not JUST to the levites. Notice it refers to the gift of Judah and Jerusalem. Notice again it says the WHOLE nation was guilty and notice again it speaks of bringing IN the tithe so the store. It was not the Levites job to give tithes.

You refuse to see the conditional statement found in verses 3 and 4 ... simple reading comprehension ...

If God cleanses the Levite ... then they will offer a proper offering then the gifts of Jerusalem and Judah will become pleasing again.

Secondly, it was not the job of Levites to give tithes??? ... WRONG AGAIN ...

They gave a tithe to the Aaronic priests ... hence, the priests lived off 1% of the general tithe....

and the Levites had the job of distributing grain for the widow, orphan and stranger ... which apparently they were not doing and thus oppressing them as Malachi says throughout the book.

Quote:

Mal 3:10 "Bring the entire tithe into the storehouse so that there may be food in my temple. Test me in this matter," says the sovereign Lord, "to see if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until there is no room for it all.
Mal 3:11 Then I will stop the plague from ruining your crops, and the vine will not lose its fruit before harvest," says the sovereign Lord.

The Levites LIVED off of "the food in the temple". Why would God be telling the Levites to pay tithes for themselves to have food in the temple?

The Levites didn't have land and crops and cattle to raise and offer.

The entire tithe set aside in the 3rd year for the needy was not going to the storehouse as instructed Praxeas .. but being mishandled for personal gain of the Levites ... this is not hard to understand ... and see throughout the book of Malachi ... take off your OP rose-colored glasses ... for a change.

The food in the temple was not just for Levite consumption but for the poor and those who gave tithes also ate their tithe during feasts

None of this taught by most who seek to keep it all.

Quote:

The Levites didn't have crops. The verse in Mal says "YOUR crops". So Mal 3 is not just to the levites, but to those too who brought tithes to the temple, into the store house, so the levites could live off of the temple work they did

More faulty reasoning ... if I give you a hundred dollars ... do you now have a hundred dollars ... even if you didn't have it prior????

Praxeas · #2 07-12-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You refuse to see the conditional statement found in verses 3 and 4 ... simple reading comprehension ...

Dan, if you are right, why do you have to resort to ad hominem comments? This is twice in a row where I said nothing about you personally and you have to respond back with a personal comment. That is enough to make one wonder if perhaps your argument is not enough to stand on it's own Also what did you mean by hit and run?

If God cleanses the Levite ... then they will offer a proper offering then the gifts of Jerusalem and Judah will become pleasing again.

Quote:

Secondly, it was not the job of Levites to give tithes??? ... WRONG AGAIN ...

They gave a tithe to the Aaronic priests ... hence, the priests lived off 1% of the general tithe....

Of the general tithe. Dan, where the levites the only tithe payers? Also did they have their own land to farm?

Also Mal 3:6, once again, shows what follows is not just to the levites but to ALL the Isralites by referring to the Sons of Jacob and not exclusively to the sons of Levi

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Then God says, again, the WHOLE NATION is guilty

Mal 3:9 You are bound for judgment because you are robbing me — this whole nation is guilty.

In chapter 2 again he speaks to the priests but THEN he speaks to the whole nation

Mal 2:11 Judah has become disloyal, and unspeakable sins have been committed in Israel and Jerusalem. For Judah has profaned the holy things that the Lord loves and has turned to a foreign god!
Mal 2:12 May the Lord cut off from the community of Jacob every last person who does this, as well as the person who presents improper offerings to the sovereign Lord!

Quote:

and the Levites had the job of distributing grain for the widow, orphan and stranger ... which apparently they were not doing and thus oppressing them as Malachi says throughout the book.

And there was not enough in the store house...wow all because just the levites were not tithing? Or was the whole nation guilty?

Quote:

The entire tithe set aside in the 3rd year for the needy was not going to the storehouse as instructed Praxeas .. but being mishandled for personal gain of the Levites ... this is not hard to understand ... and see throughout the book of Malachi ... take off your OP rose-colored glasses ... for a change.

Once again Dan resorts to ad hominem attacks. Dan, why do you hate Oneness Pentecostals so much that you have to continually make slurs like this? Have you ever EVER seen me use this verse to show tithing is a requirement?

Steve Epley · #3 07-12-2007, 11:39 PM

Dan & Jrock after reflection I do think I was wrong in addressing(though I believe my perception) y'all are correct I do NOT know either of you and if I have judge you wrongly then accept my sincere apology. I do not think I will converse with either of you on another subject. Our worlds are too far apart and I have no desire to be part of your world and the feeling I am sure is mutual with you. I have and did pray for you and I am afraid I have provoked you in a negative way. Again forgive my musings and count them as the ramblings of an old man. Jrock I don't remember calling you a child of the devil but if I did so I was wrong and I want everyone on this forum to know I was wrong.

Amos · #4 07-13-2007, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Dan & Jrock after reflection I do think I was wrong in addressing(though I believe my perception) y'all are correct I do NOT know either of you and if I have judge you wrongly then accept my sincere apology. I do not think I will converse with either of you on another subject. Our worlds are too far apart and I have no desire to be part of your world and the feeling I am sure is mutual with you. I have and did pray for you and I am afraid I have provoked you in a negative way. Again forgive my musings and count them as the ramblings of an old man. Jrock I don't remember calling you a child of the devil but if I did so I was wrong and I want everyone on this forum to know I was wrong.

Posts like this reveal a true Shepherd's heart.

This is clearly a man that stands head and shoulders above most.

SDG · #5 07-13-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Dan & Jrock after reflection I do think I was wrong in addressing(though I believe my perception) y'all are correct I do NOT know either of you and if I have judge you wrongly then accept my sincere apology. I do not think I will converse with either of you on another subject. Our worlds are too far apart and I have no desire to be part of your world and the feeling I am sure is mutual with you. I have and did pray for you and I am afraid I have provoked you in a negative way. Again forgive my musings and count them as the ramblings of an old man. Jrock I don't remember calling you a child of the devil but if I did so I was wrong and I want everyone on this forum to know I was wrong.

Apology accepted, Elder. Please forgive me if you were offended by my rantings.

J-Roc · #6 07-13-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Dan & Jrock after reflection I do think I was wrong in addressing(though I believe my perception) y'all are correct I do NOT know either of you and if I have judge you wrongly then accept my sincere apology. I do not think I will converse with either of you on another subject. Our worlds are too far apart and I have no desire to be part of your world and the feeling I am sure is mutual with you. I have and did pray for you and I am afraid I have provoked you in a negative way. Again forgive my musings and count them as the ramblings of an old man. Jrock I don't remember calling you a child of the devil but if I did so I was wrong and I want everyone on this forum to know I was wrong.

I accept your apology, Elder. Yes, you had judged us wrongly as neither of us are bitter. That we simply disagree with many things does not make us bitter. Hopefully, you won't believe your perception and take my words at face value. Growing up in the environment you are in now, it's not like we were encouraged to act as the Bereans who investigated whether things were true...(speaking for myself, but Dan might relate) as I grew up hungry for things of God and delving into the Word of God as it is like a flow of honey poured over my head, my mind, my soul, and my heart....God began to speak to me in many areas and as a result it was time to re-evaluate the teachings that were fed to me and test them for myself as a Berean....as I realized not everything was lining up, it was time for me to move on (from the UPC).

Elder, my preferred mode of discussion on these forums is to be civil without all the back and forth "biting" remarks....but when some people decide to come in with their boxing gloves and swords and all other weaponry, then I simply will go into gladiator mode and take up the challenge to do some verbal jousting...I'm not the kind to back down from that kind of talk, though I wish we could do without it...if I have come across strongly against you, it is only because I have felt you have come across strongly.

I participate on another forum where there is divergent thought and yet we all discuss matters in a civil manner and in love even though there is plenty of opposing views. You don't see the carnality there that can be so prevalent here.

Anyway, thank you for your post and if we do wind up exchanging posts in the future, I will make every effort to make sure I am civil and if it seems like we are deviating from that, then I'll just nip it in the bud.

Steve Epley · #7 07-13-2007, 10:24 AM

Thank you brethren for accepting my apologies they were from my heart.

J-Roc · #8 07-13-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Thank you brethren for accepting my apologies they were from my heart.

***GROUP HUG...Epley, Dan and J-Roc huddle and hug and sing merry songs unto the Lord***

SDG · #9 07-12-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Dan, if you are right, why do you have to resort to ad hominem comments? This is twice in a row where I said nothing about you personally and you have to respond back with a personal comment. That is enough to make one wonder if perhaps your argument is not enough to stand on it's own Also what did you mean by hit and run?

If God cleanses the Levite ... then they will offer a proper offering then the gifts of Jerusalem and Judah will become pleasing again.

Of the general tithe. Dan, where the levites the only tithe payers? Also did they have their own land to farm?

Also Mal 3:6, once again, shows what follows is not just to the levites but to ALL the Isralites by referring to the Sons of Jacob and not exclusively to the sons of Levi

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Then God says, again, the WHOLE NATION is guilty

Mal 3:9 You are bound for judgment because you are robbing me — this whole nation is guilty.

In chapter 2 again he speaks to the priests but THEN he speaks to the whole nation

Mal 2:11 Judah has become disloyal, and unspeakable sins have been committed in Israel and Jerusalem. For Judah has profaned the holy things that the Lord loves and has turned to a foreign god!
Mal 2:12 May the Lord cut off from the community of Jacob every last person who does this, as well as the person who presents improper offerings to the sovereign Lord!

And there was not enough in the store house...wow all because just the levites were not tithing? Or was the whole nation guilty?

Once again Dan resorts to ad hominem attacks. Dan, why do you hate Oneness Pentecostals so much that you have to continually make slurs like this? Have you ever EVER seen me use this verse to show tithing is a requirement?

Taking the high road is a good approach Praxeas ... although a new one at that ..

Praxeas ... I'll acknowledge a small part of Malachi ... especially part of chapter 2 is addressing Judah ... when you acknowledge that God's anger is over the handling of the tithe by the sons of Levi ...

Malachi 3:6 does nothing to make your case only an acknowledgment the God is the God of Israel ... which is being stated ....

What translation have you conveniently chosen ... for Malachi 3:9 ???

Not the NIV nor the KJV ... interestingly enough.

KJV ... states the following:

Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

Who is cursed in this rebuke? The first verses in the chapter once again give us the answer.... Here the translator says God has been robbed and one can also conclude that the whole nation is being robbed too - for ye have robbed me, even the whole nation.

NIV:
9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10

Who has brought the curse ... clearly the sons of Levi ... who are the targets of God's ire in this chapter.

Simple to see.

Praxeas · #10 07-13-2007, 12:13 PM

NET Mal 3:9 You are bound for judgment because you are robbing me — this whole nation is guilty.

MKJV Mal 3:9 You are cursed with a curse; for you are robbing Me, the nation, all of it.

CEV Mal 3:8 You people are robbing me, your God. And, here you are, asking, "How are we robbing you?" You are robbing me of the offerings and of the ten percent that belongs to me.
Mal 3:9 That's why your whole nation is under a curse.

LITV Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me. But you say, In what have we robbed You? In the tithe and the offering!
Mal 3:9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the nation, all of it.
Mal 3:10 Bring all the tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house. And test Me now with this, says Jehovah of Hosts, whether I will not open the windows of the heavens for you and pour out a blessing until there is no sufficiency of room to store it.
Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for you, and he shall not destroy the fruit of your ground against you; nor shall your vine miscarry against you in the field, says Jehovah of Hosts.
Mal 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land, says Jehovah of Hosts.