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  #171  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:00 AM
SDG SDG is offline
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Originally Posted by Coonskinner View Post
The mockery tells the tale, Brother.

You have hit the nail on the head.
Backslider, slack jawed comprimiser , pathetic , apostate, ???
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  #172  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:00 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
More faulty theology ... I could quote Gillespie but according to you he's an apostate ... so here's Daniel Seagraves on the myth of equating the laver to baptism.

The author recognizes that "the Bible itself is the source of doctrinal typology" and that "it is imperative to avoid speculative and subjective interpretations concerning baptismal typology." He seems, however, not to have heeded his own advice on this matter. While the Tabernacle of old was definitely a figure (Greek parabole) (Hebrews 9:9), no New Testament verse seeks to interpret the meaning of each item associated with Tabernacle worship. By necessity, then, much of the interpretation regarding the Tabernacle is speculative at best. What the New Testament does clearly indicate is that the essential purpose of the Tabernacle worship, as a whole, was to prefigure the coming Christ and His role as the final and only efficacious sacrifice (Hebrews 9:8-14, 23-26; 10:1-21; Colossians 2:16-17; Galatians 3:24).

There are several reasons why the laver seems not to be an adequate type of water baptism:

1. Contrary to the author's assumption that the laver was "scheduled after the initial approach and sacrifice at the brazen altar and before entering the Holy Place," the laver was the first destination of the priest, even before approaching the brazen altar (Exodus 30:20; 40:12, 30-32). If the brazen altar represents repentance and the laver water baptism, this would place baptism before repentance in typology.

2. While the New Testament does assign specific typological meaning to certain Old Testament events and practices, it nowhere specifies the laver as a type of water baptism.

3. The laver was not a place of immersion, but mere washing.

4. The priests had to wash at the laver repeatedly each time they planned to minister. Water baptism is a one-time event.

If the laver is typical of any New Testament truth, it would seem more appropriate to consider it to be typical of the daily washing of believers by the Word of God, as seen in Ephesians 5:26: "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

The laver would seem an appropriate symbol of this for the following reasons:

1. It was covered with mirrors, reflecting the approaching priest's image. The New Testament compares the Word of God to a mirror in which men behold themselves (James 1:23).

2. The washing at the laver was a continual thing; the washing of water by the Word is a continuing process.
I do not agree with Elder Seagraves on this I have read this before MANY other Pentecostal scholars have agreed with me.
However I will acknowledge FIRSTLY every act or piece of furniture first is fulfilled in Christ and his atoning work then that work as we experience it in our personal lives.
The priest did wash WITHAL firstly.

The placement is important since it was made after the PATTERN!

Yes beyond our inital washing there is a continual washing our hands-feet what we do and where we go our actions and walk are cleansed daily through the word by his blood.

Sometimes trying somewhat to accomodate the OUTSIDE theological world some men feel pressured I think the same of Reeves. Not castigating them but i am not obliged to give an inch to the religious world to placate them.
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  #173  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:00 AM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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I think this is all a misrepresentation of facts.

Those of the so-called PCI camp view Acts 2:38 completely different than I, and traditional Apostolics, do. It matters because it seems there is an attempt to place less and less importance on the NECESSITY of water baptism and the Holy Ghost baptism. I mean, my goodness people, some of you have even went off the deep end and claimed repentance is not necessary to receive the Spirit of God!

The big dfference I see is that some of us believe obedience to Acts 2:38 is necessary for salvation. Others believe it is just a second blessing that would be terrific to receive if you ever get around to it. Those folks SAY they preach Acts 2:38, but I don't believe it.

The reason I don't believe it is because of the vitriol spewn on anyone who says this is THE way to respond to the gospel. If you loved the message, you wouldn't find ways to rip and tear it.

Let's not ..........-foot around the issue here. Some of you no longer believe it is necessary to be baptized in Jesus name, and receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Some don't even believe repentance is a requirement. This. my dear misguided friends, is the very definition of backslid. What is even worse is that you lead others into this heresy.

Now, go ahead and crucify me if you can't handle what I just said.
Amazing how this place cleared out so suddenly - isn't it?
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  #174  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:01 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Barb CC is NOT an isolated situation have you read what is being posted here much of it is the same. They no more think baptism and HGB is any more important than the Baptist.

I can name church after church that has roots and those churches NO longer stress baptism or HGB in any way. The pray the sinner's prayer and join the church just like the denominal world and there is NO change of lifestyle whatsoever. Just like the rest of the religious world. Thus belief matters.
This has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

Let's not forget that many of the churches who do not teach your interpretation of what doctrinal truth is are full of people who have received the Holy Ghost baptism. People are receiving this all over the world. It doesn't belong to one group of apostolics or representative of a certain doctrinal persuasion.
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  #175  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:01 AM
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Amazing how this place cleared out so suddenly - isn't it?
Oh really? Hehe.
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  #176  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:01 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
If you all believe Acts 2:38 so fervently, why do you continually rip and tear at it? It is as if you despise it. There have been many supposedly humorous remarks made against an emphasis on this response to the gospel, on this thread and others, in the last few days.
Now there is a point.
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  #177  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
bump
I would like a response to this post.
A smoke screen ... not a real question ... just a re-direction ... No one has shredded Acts 2:38 ... just the unbiblical and exegetical distortion some have twisted it to mean.
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  #178  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
This has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

Let's not forget that many of the churches who do not teach your interpretation of what doctrinal truth is are full of people who have received the Holy Ghost baptism. People are receiving this all over the world. It doesn't belong to one group of apostolics or representative of a certain doctrinal persuasion.
Anyone who genuinely recieves the Spirit I rejoice if they did if they follow it then it will lead them to the truth if not:
1. their experience was not geniune
2. the experience was genuine but they ceased to follow it.
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  #179  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:05 AM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
This has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

Let's not forget that many of the churches who do not teach your interpretation of what doctrinal truth is are full of people who have received the Holy Ghost baptism. People are receiving this all over the world. It doesn't belong to one group of apostolics or representative of a certain doctrinal persuasion.
Hogwash!

They may have received the Holy Ghost, but they reject His name. I suppose the name no longer matters either?

Tell me friend, what doctrinal absolutes does the so-called "PCI" group on this thread still adhere to in 2007?
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  #180  
Old 02-26-2007, 11:06 AM
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Hogwash!

They may have received the Holy Ghost, but they reject His name. I suppose the name no longer matters either?

Tell me friend, what doctrinal absolutes does the so-called "PCI" group on this thread still adhere to in 2007?
The truth police are out today ...
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