Firearms Refresher Course

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Peter was NOT even converted when he did that. Remember, this was pre-pentecost. Try again.

So? Did Peter pray? Did he have faith?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

When did God change?

He told David to "PURSUE." David did not pursue with spit balls. Trust me. He pursued under the direction of a N.T. God, with SWORDS, after which death and destruction followed in the wake of that order from God to PURSUE.

The God of David who slew the giant, and the God of the Angel that killed 183,000 in one night, and the God of Samuel who hacked down Agag the king with with Saul's own sword as he watched, IS THE NEW TESTAMENT GOD. Trust me on this! It is the truth.

Now if we want to get real silly, we might even demand to see where standing in defese of your family is found in the book of JUDE! Ha! Or where is it commanded in Revelation 22 to be a pacificst? Ha! The fact of the matter is, the God of the OLD TESTAMENT is the same God of the NEW TESTAMENT. Dont' let anyone kid you. Same God! He does not change.

So answer this, no one else will:

The same people that were called to fight physical wars in the Old Testament were also called to do the following:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: (19) Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; (20) And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. (21) And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Is this to still be enforced in the New Testament as well? If not, why is this any different than what you are saying? I am not asking because I need this answer; this question is for you….

Remember John and James’ request?

Luke 9:54-55 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did? (55) But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Why was such vengeance acceptable during Elijah’s time, but not during the New Testament? Why did Jesus say that Zebedee’s, “Sons of Thunder, were asking for something that was of a “different spirit” than Jesus’? Again, I am not asking for me….

God used to wink at a lot of things that the New Testament says He now calls all men to repent for. Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of their Old-Testament-hearts, but then He raised the standard for all men in the New Testament and showed that a new heart should bring a deeper commitment. Jesus had a woman caught in adultery cast before His feet to see if He would agree with stoning her as commanded through Moses. What did Jesus do? He showed that judgment was not the highest standard of His kingdom. Instead He showed mercy. Jesus’ kingdom is built on His blood, not on His enemy’s. Jesus’ kingdom is to be known for love and mercy, not for hate and judgment. How can we demonstrate these godly traits while fighting a war?

Jesus is not a weak god that cannot rule from his own throne. Do you truly believe that He needs His Church to execute justice for him? See that is where we differ. I cannot find any scripture that says Jesus uses His Church for these things. Paul said that He uses heathen leaders for that, but the Church is to stay focused on love (See Romans 13:1-10).

I have asked repeatedly where the Jesus and or His Apostles wrote favorably concerning the Church involving herself in war or in killing her enemies. The absence of these scriptures should be cause enough for any who favor this draft to stop and think about how they could be in favor for something unsupported—and even spoken against—in scripture. How can we trust Jesus for our healing, or for our sustenance, or for our salvation, but not for our safety? The early Church trusted Him in all these. That is why there is NO RECORD of the early Church ever taking up arms to defend themselves. This is one of the biggest reasons why Rome was so attracted to the Church. Though persecuted, they never fought back. The Romans saw this as a strength that exceeded mere human ability. This testimony substantiated the Jesus that the Church preached and died for! Because of this, why should we be any different? Did Jesus change, or did men?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Okay, I am all yours. What is the point.

....go back and read who I was responding to and what they posted, then you will see the point

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So? Did Peter pray? Did he have faith?

Sorry, I thought you would understand "pre-pentecost." What I meant by this was Peter did not have Jesus ruling in his heart through the Holy Ghost when he did that. Is that clearer?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

....go back and read who I was responding to and what they posted, then you will see the point

What post numbers?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Hope this helps


Rom 12:19-21

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

Elder Ben,

I believe this scripture whole heartedly.

I do not give place unto wrath. Neither do I pay vengeance. I leave vengeance to my Lord. I do good to my enemies if I knew who they were. I will feed and clothe him too, if I am given a opportunity. I will not be overcome of evil but I will overcome evil with the good that I do. All of that and more too while protecting my home, the house of God, with whatever force needed to do it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Sorry, I thought you would understand "pre-pentecost." What I meant by this was Peter did not have Jesus ruling in his heart through the Holy Ghost when he did that. Is that clearer?

What does that have to do with what EB said and my post? He made the point first about faith and prayer and all I did was rhetorically talk about Peter...did Peter pray before Pentecost? Did he have faith before Pentecost? Once again you seem to be missing peoples points probably by not fully reading what is being discussed

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What does that have to do with what EB said and my post? He made the point first about faith and prayer and all I did was rhetorically talk about Peter...did Peter pray before Pentecost? Did he have faith before Pentecost? Once again you seem to be missing peoples points probably by not fully reading what is being discussed

Prax, my posts was about Peter using his sword. If you look back you will see that I even quoted that with my statement. Maybe you are missing the posts?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Prax, my posts was about Peter using his sword. If you look back you will see that I even quoted that with my statement. Maybe you are missing the posts?

That's nice, but me....Im talking about what EB said and pointing out that if EB is right then Peter must not have had faith and or prayed.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So? Let me tell you the story of 4 Christian girls who were beheaded by Muslims...what does that prove?

What about 4 Christian girls dying in a car accident?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That's your business. But you can be sure if you owned a gun and someone broke in and you used it to defend your family, I would be the last one to condemn you.

The Hell's Angels wouldn't condemn me either, so Praxes is in more agreement with a bike club than the Bible.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Many prayerful people have been killed. Why not pray for food too and trust that God will deliver it to your door instead of going out?

It happens from time to time Praxes. I trust in God for a lot of things maybe you should try it and see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

God expects you to do somethings too doesn't He?

Sure He does, going work earning a living, but not defending yourself..next.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do you have medical insurance?

NO.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Home owners insurance?

NO.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Renters insurance?

NO.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Car insurance?

Yes, it's a state law.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do you suppose that people that do have those never pray?

Hey Praxaes did you ever have a gun pointed at you? Ever been in a fight where someone had a gun, knife, ball bat? I'm asking this to find out if you were ever in a situation where someone had you in the cross hairs?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Paul cast out demons too. Did that prevent him from being attacked or harmed in any way?

Are you saying that Paul fought back? Show me where he put up a fight?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Maybe others don't have the faith you have...however the sad thing is you don't realize how you are so far far away from being an encourager of other peoples faith.

Because I tell them not to retaliate? Prax? Ever wrestle a gun out of a man's hand? Praxeas you need to really examine the scriptures in your New Testament. Read Leo Tolstoy's book "The Kingdom of God is Within You."

Brother Benincasa, you're not encourager of people? What was that suppose to do?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

In fact when you come around some people around here would rather hide because your post do anything BUT encourage others to believe more. You know, your faith was never meant to be a weapon to beat over the head of other believers.

What? Ok, Praxeas, so does this win your argument? Are you now right because people don't like me?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

btw I have cast out demons too so your idiotic suggestion that Pentecostals that aren't like you don't pray is an example of why some people here just don't dialog with you,

And Yes, sometimes bad things happen to good people despite having a lot of faith and praying

I guess this means that you and I are done with this discussion?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com