Firearms Refresher Course

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

See that none render evil for evil unto any man

Killing one (condemned to hell most likely) who is transgressing against you then is not evil - but to go and rape his wife in return would be the evil in reference here? Am I reading this right?

This is talking about retribution. Pay back. Macho mas macho....gang banger shoots your neighborhood up...you go to the same...Man rapes you wife, you go hunt him down and kill him or beat him up.

Vengeance, retribution...

We are not talking either about someone that has "trasngressed against you"...like he stepped on your daisies and you blow his head off. We are talking about someone that is breaking into your house and you are home...or someone that is attacking your wife and or kids or an estranged husband is about to stomp on the head of his wife and cave it in and you have the chance to stop him by some physical means....does not necessarily have to be killing, but any sort of physical means. Just realize that sometimes death happens too.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is talking about retribution. Pay back. Macho mas macho....gang banger shoots your neighborhood up...you go to the same...Man rapes you wife, you go hunt him down and kill him or beat him up.

Vengeance, retribution...

Rendering evil for evil is talking about the same thing as in Matthew 5:38-39 when the cheek is hit it is left to you to react.

Same thing when someone steals your coat you are to also give him your cloak. If the military compels you to go a mile you're to go two. You see how this all unfolds to be non-reactive. If they even take from you (property) you are to give them what you have left.

Can you show where vengeance means there is a space of time lapse before you retaliate? You keep bringing this word up as if there is some time passing between the time of assault and your reacting you have committed evil. If you shoot your attacker at the moment of crime then you are safe and have committed no offence.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We are not talking either about someone that has "trasngressed against you"...like he stepped on your daisies and you blow his head off.

Could you show me how you get that from Matthew 5:38-48? Also do you know what's being said in Romans 12:14?

Rom 12:14 Bless them which PERSECUTE you: bless, and curse not.


The Greek word that is used for the English word PERSECUTE means to pursue (in a hostile manner). How do you separate personal (single person) defense and plural (family members) defense? What about countries? Iraq, Saddam Hussein, Osama Ben Laden? By your measure we are totally going after them "after the fact" so every solider (by your measure) is a murderer?

Please show me your interpretation,

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We are talking about someone that is breaking into your house and you are home...or someone that is attacking your wife and or kids or an estranged husband is about to stomp on the head of his wife and cave it in and you have the chance to stop him by some physical means....does not necessarily have to be killing, but any sort of physical means.

Bingo! There it is Praxeas, you just said it. I have stop more garbage from going down with verbal commands and hand actions. I have pried people off of each without even leaving a bruise. I have used my body as a human shield between myself and an angry dude trying to stab his girlfriend in a bar.

Prayer and the power of the Holy Ghost goes a long way. The same power that casts out devils and binds a demon possessed person without you having to choke or throttle them. Is the same power that can enable you to stop something bad from happening. I seen it happen, I've had it proven to me by the man who baptized me in Jesus name. He had a drunk employee attack him in his living room and I went to stop the man, my minister friend said Brother Dominic don't you do anything, and with that old Brother Harris took his large hand and laid it on the man's head and prayed in Jesus name, and the man went sober. Stone cold sober. It works!

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Just realize that sometimes death happens too.

Now wouldn't that be a shame? I know police officers who work here in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, and they always tell me "Brother Benincasa, I pray everyday that I am never in a position that I would have to use my weapon."

I tell them what I have told you here. There's no way around it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Rendering evil for evil is talking about the same thing as in Matthew 5:38-39 when the cheek is hit it is left to you to react.

No it's not, because the issue is intent. If I raise my hand to stop someone from hitting me, that is not retribution. If someone hits me in the face and out of anger I hit him back, that is retribution. If someone starts hitting me or is trying to hit me and I want to keep him from harming me, that is not retribution.

Same thing when someone steals your coat you are to also give him your cloak. If the military compels you to go a mile you're to go two. You see how this all unfolds to be non-reactive. If they even take from you (property) you are to give them what you have left.

if someone steals your coat and you steal his back or key his car over it, that is retribution. If someone is trying to steal your coat and you are holding on to it so he can't take it, that is not retribution.

Can you show where vengeance means there is a space of time lapse before you retaliate?

Retaliation is NOT self defense nor is it the act of protecting the life of someone else. It's the act of preventing harm or further harm.

Vengeance Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
www.dictionary.com

Retribution

1. Something justly deserved; recompense.
2. Something given or demanded in repayment, especially punishment.

These are about pay back. They have nothing to do with safe keeping a family member from harm by preventing it or stopping it.

It's pay back...REpayment. Getting even.

Could you show me how you get that from Matthew 5:38-48?

I didn't say I got anything from this verse. Im defining what retribution means. In fact I said we are NOT talking about blowing someone away for stepping on your daisies. I said we are NOT talking about doing some act because someone simply transgressed against you. I said we are NOT. Get it? I did not GET something. I am saying we can't do something TO someone just because they transgressed us. Are you saying we can?

Also do you know what's being said in Romans 12:14?

Rom 12:14 Bless them which PERSECUTE you: bless, and curse not.

Yes, I do.

The Greek word that is used for the English word PERSECUTE means to pursue (in a hostile manner). How do you separate personal (single person) defense and plural (family members) defense? What about countries? Iraq, Saddam Hussein, Osama Ben Laden? By your measure we are totally going after them "after the fact" so every solider (by your measure) is a murderer?

Well first of all I think the context is about religious persecution. Second it is talking about the individual. I really can't see that this verse would mean that you allow an individual to beat the mess out of your wife or kid and rape them while you are standing their blessing them. Do you? It doesn't say you can't try to keep someone from harming family members.

At the same time someone will quote scriptures that tell us we are responsible to take care of the family too.

On Osama...if someone is going after him to exact revenge, they are wrong. If someone is going after them in an effort to try to prevent more deaths then that is NOT retribution.

Bingo! There it is Praxeas, you just said it. I have stop more garbage from going down with verbal commands and hand actions. I have pried people off of each without even leaving a bruise. I have used my body as a human shield between myself and an angry dude trying to stab his girlfriend in a bar.

And if you can do that, that is great. But if you are unable to do that, you might have to use something else.

Prayer and the power of the Holy Ghost goes a long way. The same power that casts out devils and binds a demon possessed person without you having to choke or throttle them. Is the same power that can enable you to stop something bad from happening. I seen it happen, I've had it proven to me by the man who baptized me in Jesus name. He had a drunk employee attack him in his living room and I went to stop the man, my minister friend said Brother Dominic don't you do anything, and with that old Brother Harris took his large hand and laid it on the man's head and prayed in Jesus name, and the man went sober. Stone cold sober. It works!

I believe it, but faith did not prevent Paul from being stoned near to death. Faith and prayer got Peter out of prison, but not BEFORE he was beaten.

Now wouldn't that be a shame? I know police officers who work here in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, and they always tell me "Brother Benincasa, I pray everyday that I am never in a position that I would have to use my weapon."

I tell them what I have told you here. There's no way around it.

I think that is what I said actually....as I said, they regret it AND as I said sometimes there is no way around it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Rendering evil for evil is talking about the same thing as in Matthew 5:38-39 when the cheek is hit it is left to you to react.

No it's not, because the issue is intent. If I raise my hand to stop someone from hitting me, that is not retribution. If someone hits me in the face and out of anger I hit him back, that is retribution. If someone starts hitting me or is trying to hit me and I want to keep him from harming me, that is not retribution.

Same thing when someone steals your coat you are to also give him your cloak. If the military compels you to go a mile you're to go two. You see how this all unfolds to be non-reactive. If they even take from you (property) you are to give them what you have left.

if someone steals your coat and you steal his back or key his car over it, that is retribution. If someone is trying to steal your coat and you are holding on to it so he can't take it, that is not retribution.

Can you show where vengeance means there is a space of time lapse before you retaliate?

Retaliation is NOT self defense nor is it the act of protecting the life of someone else. It's the act of preventing harm or further harm.

Vengeance Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
www.dictionary.com

Retribution

1. Something justly deserved; recompense.
2. Something given or demanded in repayment, especially punishment.

These are about pay back. They have nothing to do with safe keeping a family member from harm by preventing it or stopping it.

It's pay back...REpayment. Getting even.

Could you show me how you get that from Matthew 5:38-48?

I didn't say I got anything from this verse. Im defining what retribution means. In fact I said we are NOT talking about blowing someone away for stepping on your daisies. I said we are NOT talking about doing some act because someone simply transgressed against you. I said we are NOT. Get it? I did not GET something. I am saying we can't do something TO someone just because they transgressed us. Are you saying we can?

Also do you know what's being said in Romans 12:14?

Rom 12:14 Bless them which PERSECUTE you: bless, and curse not.

Yes, I do.

The Greek word that is used for the English word PERSECUTE means to pursue (in a hostile manner). How do you separate personal (single person) defense and plural (family members) defense? What about countries? Iraq, Saddam Hussein, Osama Ben Laden? By your measure we are totally going after them "after the fact" so every solider (by your measure) is a murderer?

Well first of all I think the context is about religious persecution. Second it is talking about the individual. I really can't see that this verse would mean that you allow an individual to beat the mess out of your wife or kid and rape them while you are standing their blessing them. Do you? It doesn't say you can't try to keep someone from harming family members.

At the same time someone will quote scriptures that tell us we are responsible to take care of the family too.

On Osama...if someone is going after him to exact revenge, they are wrong. If someone is going after them in an effort to try to prevent more deaths then that is NOT retribution.

Bingo! There it is Praxeas, you just said it. I have stop more garbage from going down with verbal commands and hand actions. I have pried people off of each without even leaving a bruise. I have used my body as a human shield between myself and an angry dude trying to stab his girlfriend in a bar.

And if you can do that, that is great. But if you are unable to do that, you might have to use something else.

Prayer and the power of the Holy Ghost goes a long way. The same power that casts out devils and binds a demon possessed person without you having to choke or throttle them. Is the same power that can enable you to stop something bad from happening. I seen it happen, I've had it proven to me by the man who baptized me in Jesus name. He had a drunk employee attack him in his living room and I went to stop the man, my minister friend said Brother Dominic don't you do anything, and with that old Brother Harris took his large hand and laid it on the man's head and prayed in Jesus name, and the man went sober. Stone cold sober. It works!

I believe it, but faith did not prevent Paul from being stoned near to death. Faith and prayer got Peter out of prison, but not BEFORE he was beaten.

Now wouldn't that be a shame? I know police officers who work here in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, and they always tell me "Brother Benincasa, I pray everyday that I am never in a position that I would have to use my weapon."

I tell them what I have told you here. There's no way around it.

I think that is what I said actually....as I said, they regret it AND as I said sometimes there is no way around it.