Homosexuality Or Legalism--Which Is Worse?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Any teaching that makes man's performance the basis for his salvation is legalism. Paul makes it very clear that salvation is by grace through faith, and even our faith is not of ourselves, so that no one can boast that their own works have saved them. Some folks have a hard time accepting that a person cannot save themselves. Man's effort to save himself always ends up as legalism.

So are you saying a individual doesn't have to repent?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So are you saying a individual doesn't have to repent?

He also failed to say, "Look both ways before crossing the street;" but I think it's pretty plain what he means.

Are you saying that you buy salvation?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

He also failed to say, "Look both ways before crossing the street;" but I think it's pretty plain what he means.

Are you saying that you buy salvation?

I'm asking does a person need to repent? It was only one line I typed..correct?

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So are you saying a individual doesn't have to repent?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Of course one has to repent, but not in the sense that repentance becomes a work that we do. Repentance is a "change of mind" concerning self and sin, and is the direct result of the work of the Spirit. The very fact that Paul says salvation is "not as a result of works" but a gift in Ephesians 2:8[ESV] eliminates any perception that repentance or baptism is considered a "work" of the flesh. Rather it is a "response" of the flesh to the Spirit's work in the life of a believer.

The difference between your mindset and mine, is that you believe I have to repent, have to be baptized, have to get the gift of the Holy Ghost and have to be holy. I believe I get to repent, get to be baptized, and get to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and get to be holy, all because of God's amazing grace! And it all began when I believed the Gospel.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Of course one has to repent, but not in the sense that repentance becomes a work that we do. Repentance is a "change of mind" concerning self and sin, and is the direct result of the work of the Spirit. The very fact that Paul says salvation is "not as a result of works" but a gift in Ephesians 2:8[ESV] eliminates any perception that repentance or baptism is considered a "work" of the flesh. Rather it is a "response" of the flesh to the Spirit's work in the life of a believer.

When Paul speaks about the earning work in Eph 2:8 he is speaking about the Law of Moses and that not one Jew could earn their way to perfection in God, and therefore obtian salvation. In Acts 2:37 those Jews were pricked in their hearts and were compelled to ask men and Brothers what shall we DO.
The "doing" is the by product of God moving upon the heart to bring conviction and the fruit is through obidience. When Paul writes in Eph 2:8 he is reminding the reader that the Law minus Christ will never allow anyone to obtian salvation.

John the Baptist understood this all very well when he said..

Mat 3:7-9

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? BRING FORTH therefore FRUITS meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."


John's warning to the physical Jews was that they needed to present the fruits of their repentance, and that they could not just say that they were saved because of race entitlement.

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

The difference between your mindset and mine, is that you believe I have to repent, have to be baptized, have to get the gift of the Holy Ghost

TB, are you saying that an individual doesn't HAVE TO repent and be water baptized, and filled with the Holy Ghost? (didn't we go roudn and round last year, or was two years ago?)

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

and have to be holy. I believe I get to repent, get to be baptized, and get to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and get to be holy, all because of God's amazing grace! And it all began when I believed the Gospel.

TB, what do you think about the Agnostic Carlton Pearson's doctrine?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

When Paul speaks about the earning work in Eph 2:8 he is speaking about the Law of Moses and that not one Jew could earn their way to perfection in God, and therefore obtian salvation. In Acts 2:37 those Jews were pricked in their hearts and were compelled to ask men and Brothers what shall we DO.
The "doing" is the by product of God moving upon the heart to bring conviction and the fruit is through obidience. When Paul writes in Eph 2:8 he is reminding the reader that the Law minus Christ will never allow anyone to obtian salvation.

John the Baptist understood this all very well when he said..

Mat 3:7-9

"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? BRING FORTH therefore FRUITS meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."


John's warning to the physical Jews was that they needed to present the fruits of their repentance, and that they could not just say that they were saved because of race entitlement.




TB, are you saying that an individual doesn't HAVE TO repent and be water baptized, and filled with the Holy Ghost? (didn't we go roudn and round last year, or was two years ago?)



TB, what do you think about the Agnostic Carlton Pearson's doctrine?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Perhaps we're talking past one another. I don't disagree that repentance and baptism is something we do, and I agree that both are the result of the Spirit's work in the life of a believer. However, I still believe Paul's words in Ephesians 2:8 make it very clear that salvation can never be the result of our works. Works is something one does to earn something. Repentance and baptism is not something we do to earn something. They are acts of obedience, not works meant to earn salvation.

The difference in understanding of this point is very significant in determining how one views their relationship with God. For example, when you understand this as I do, the baptism of the Holy Ghost is not a requirement I'm trying to meet, but the gift I get to receive because I am the son of God. (Gal.4:6)

BTW, I don't follow Carlton Pearson at all, so I can't comment on his doctrine.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Of course one has to repent, but not in the sense that repentance becomes a work that we do. Repentance is a "change of mind" concerning self and sin, and is the direct result of the work of the Spirit. The very fact that Paul says salvation is "not as a result of works" but a gift in Ephesians 2:8[ESV] eliminates any perception that repentance or baptism is considered a "work" of the flesh. Rather it is a "response" of the flesh to the Spirit's work in the life of a believer.

The difference between your mindset and mine, is that you believe I have to repent, have to be baptized, have to get the gift of the Holy Ghost and have to be holy. I believe I get to repent, get to be baptized, and get to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and get to be holy, all because of God's amazing grace! And it all began when I believed the Gospel.

You get to repent? So if you don't take God up on that generous offer that you get to repent, are you still saved?

For what it's worth, I don't see where the bible ever presents repentance or believing as something we GET to do. It is not optional. Nor do I believe repentance is a work. Does the bible define works as "anything we can do"?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You get to repent? So if you don't take God up on that generous offer that you get to repent, are you still saved?

For what it's worth, I don't see where the bible ever presents repentance or believing as something we GET to do. It is not optional. Nor do I believe repentance is a work. Does the bible define works as "anything we can do"?

I both agree and disagree with you here - and maybe I'm guilty of quibbling; you decide.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

"For what it's worth, I don't see where the bible ever presents repentance or believing as something we GET to do."

The example of pharoah comes immediately to mind. He didn't get the "chance" to repent because God had hardened his heart. Esau sought a "place of repentence" but it was too late for him. He didn't "get" to repent either. I think that we can say that you (all of us, really) must repent. But when we look at the bigger picture, we have to acknowledge that we get to repent as well. The opportunity for our repentance to be efficatious is known as God's grace.

And I agree with your statement: "repentance is not a 'work.'"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I both agree and disagree with you here - and maybe I'm guilty of quibbling; you decide.

Fence Sitter!

The example of pharoah comes immediately to mind. He didn't get the "chance" to repent because God had hardened his heart. Esau sought a "place of repentence" but it was too late for him. He didn't "get" to repent either. I think that we can say that you (all of us, really) must repent. But when we look at the bigger picture, we have to acknowledge that we get to repent as well. The opportunity for our repentance to be efficatious is known as God's grace.

And I agree with your statement: "repentance is not a 'work.'"

But look at the context he was saying it....it was saying essentially one does not HAVE to repent, one GETs to repent.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Fence Sitter!


But look at the context he was saying it....it was saying essentially one does not HAVE to repent, one GETs to repent.

TB, this is where I came up with asking if you leaned towards inclusionism.
I don't think I ever picked that up in our conversations before, but it does seem odd that you would double-speak and say we don't have to be saved, but we get to be saved. You must admit that it sounds odd. Could you explain this thought in more detail?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com