Homosexuality Or Legalism--Which Is Worse?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Okay, what works have you done that made you good enough to deserve salvation? What did you do to convince God that you were good enough to be saved?

Is that what I asked you? Didn't I just ask you one question? Allow me to ask you again.

Rev 20:12

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were JUDGED out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS."


Rev 20:13

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS."

If the final outcome will be according to not only a "work" singular, but works plural. Would you so kindly show us what those works may be?


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Is that what I asked you? Didn't I just ask you one question? Allow me to ask you again.

Rev 20:12

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were JUDGED out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS."


Rev 20:13

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS."

If the final outcome will be according to not only a "work" singular, but works plural. Would you so kindly show us what those works may be?

Wow, I never read that before. You tell me. What "works" could any of us possibly have done that are good enough to impress God and force Him to accept us into His kingdom?

What are you going to do? What are you going to tell Him at that time?

[tv1a]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Wow, I never read that before. You tell me. What "works" could any of us possibly have done that are good enough to impress God and force Him to accept us into His kingdom?

What are you going to do? What are you going to tell Him at that time?

I kept my elbows covered.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I kept my elbows covered.

LOL! How about, "I never grew a mustache or beard?"

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

LOL! How about, "I never grew a mustache or beard?"

They would be both white, which would make you look ike Santa Clause.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Wow, I never read that before.

Pelathais, don't do that with me, please it's late over here on the East Coast and all I wanted was an answer from a one line question.

Originally Posted by pelathais

You tell me. What "works" could any of us possibly have done that are good enough to impress God and force Him to accept us into His kingdom?

How about you explain the scripture. We don't need to get philosophical.

Originally Posted by pelathais

What are you going to do? What are you going to tell Him at that time?

I'm going to tell Him that I read the Bible, you're going to tell Him that you read Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Pelathais, don't do that with me, please it's late over here on the East Coast and all I wanted was an answer from a one line question.
How about you explain the scripture. We don't need to get philosophical.

Sorry, I was just beginning to post when they started to lock up, so I ended with only a wise crack. I'm home now and I'm certain that I've missed you for this evening/morn (or at least I hope you don't keep the hours that I do). As far as being "philosophical..." No promises.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I'm going to tell Him that I read the Bible, you're going to tell Him that you read Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.

Ah, but He would know that I was lying because Socrates never wrote anything at all for later generations to read. But, I'm getting "philosophical" already...

As I was catching up on the posts it appears that TrulyBlessed has already answered the question about the Great White Throne judgement. Though there are of course many interpretations, Apostolics have usually held that the judgement of Revelation 20, that you cited is for "sinners" and that "saints" are judged separately at:

1) At Calvary's cross Romans 5:8
2) Our own self-judgment 1 Corinthians 11:31 (if we judge ourselves we shall not be judged...)
3) The Judgement Seat of Christ (Gr. Bema) 2 Corinthians 5:10 (compared to the Great White Throne Judgment - Gr. thronos)

Your's was not a "yes or no" type of question. At this link there is a pic from Larkin's classic treatment of The Book of Revelation. Notice toward the left side of the pic, near the top (along with the Rapture) you have The Judgement Seat of Christ (Gr. βημα) and all the way to the right there is The Great White Throne Judgment (Gr. θρονον λευκον μεγαν ): two different terms for each event.

Two different "judgements." One for those who have received the free gift of salvation and one for those who did not. Those who are judged in the verses you cite are condemned by their own works and thus God is justified in His judgments.

For the believer; works are good, but they don't really appear to impress God (Romans 4:2).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Sorry, I was just beginning to post when they started to lock up, so I ended with only a wise crack. I'm home now and I'm certain that I've missed you for this evening/morn (or at least I hope you don't keep the hours that I do). As far as being "philosophical..." No promises.

Ah, but He would know that I was lying because Socrates never wrote anything at all for later generations to read. But, I'm getting "philosophical" already...

As I was catching up on the posts it appears that TrulyBlessed has already answered the question about the Great White Throne judgement. Though there are of course many interpretations, Apostolics have usually held that the judgement of Revelation 20, that you cited is for "sinners" and that "saints" are judged separately at:

1) At Calvary's cross Romans 5:8
2) Our own self-judgment 1 Corinthians 11:31 (if we judge ourselves we shall not be judged...)
3) The Judgement Seat of Christ (Gr. Bema) 2 Corinthians 5:10 (compared to the Great White Throne Judgment - Gr. thronos)

Your's was not a "yes or no" type of question. At this link there is a pic from Larkin's classic treatment of The Book of Revelation. Notice toward the left side of the pic, near the top (along with the Rapture) you have The Judgement Seat of Christ (Gr. βημα) and all the way to the right there is The Great White Throne Judgment (Gr. θρονον λευκον μεγαν ): two different terms for each event.

Two different "judgements." One for those who have received the free gift of salvation and one for those who did not. Those who are judged in the verses you cite are condemned by their own works and thus God is justified in His judgments.

For the believer; works are good, but they don't really appear to impress God (Romans 4:2).

No problem, just thought you would be able to presents your thoughts on the "works" that are found in Revelation. I'm far from being a Dispensationlist, and so I don't view eschatology as Clearence Larkin (Larkin was against tongue talkers).

Lets see where Jesus makes an eschatological statement coupled with "works".

Mat 16:24-28

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? FOR the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall REWARD every man ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

In Matthew 16:24-28 Jesus starts out by telling His followers to lead a sacrificial life and that by doing that they will obtain salvation through the cross they carry. Jesus speaks of one denying themselves, and therefore not losing their souls, but gaining eternal life. We then have Jesus going to explain the REWARDS of their denying the world and accepting the way of cross. Therefore at the judgement they are judged by their works, or should I say FRUIT.

Do you believe what Larkin believes yes or no? I'm not having a discussion with Larkin, I'm having a discussion with you. So do you agree with Larkin?

In Jesus Name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Is that what I asked you? Didn't I just ask you one question? Allow me to ask you again.

Rev 20:12

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were JUDGED out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS."


Rev 20:13

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS."

If the final outcome will be according to not only a "work" singular, but works plural. Would you so kindly show us what those works may be?


In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I have always understood these verses to refer to a judgment that falls at the end of the Millennial Kingdom and relates to those who died without Christ, and those who were alive coming out of the Millennial Kingdom and who would be judged according to their works during that period. This is after the Second Resurrection.

The First Resurrection has already taken place and those who have been saved prior to the First Resurrection would have had their destiny already determined, or they wouldn't have gone up in the rapture. They have returned with Christ and ruled and reigned with Him on earth for a thousand years.

Do I misunderstand this passage?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I have always understood these verses to refer to a judgment that falls at the end of the Millennial Kingdom and relates to those who died without Christ, and those who were alive coming out of the Millennial Kingdom and who would be judged according to their works during that period. This is after the Second Resurrection.

The First Resurrection has already taken place and those who have been saved prior to the First Resurrection would have had their destiny already determined, or they wouldn't have gone up in the rapture. They have returned with Christ and ruled and reigned with Him on earth for a thousand years.

Do I misunderstand this passage?

In the light of comparing scripture with scripture you do.

Mat 16:24-28

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall REWARD EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com