Pastors move to withhold/lessen SFC offerings in protest of NAYC

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Newman

Sometimes it looks like the organization is a god unto itself with its teachings expected to be on par with His Word. God forbid that the UPC should appear less stodgy and removed from where youth are today.

I would really love to know how many young people stay through adulthood in these churches that are protesting (and are not on payroll or expected to take a church position in the future)? Fire away!

Sis,

do you think ethics are important when dealing with ministry?? Why didn't they find some youth that had made a perfect score in school, or brought out the person that was the champ of the quiz team, and make them a roll model. The whole point is not that the org is God, the whole point is that it ain't ethically right for someone in leadership to go contrary to the current bylaws that the constituency holds and present someone that contradicts them as a roll model. ETHICS is what I am talking about, not whether the bylaws are right or not.

BTW,

I am protesting, and all my kids continue to have a real relationship with God.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Sis,

do you think ethics are important when dealing with ministry?? Why didn't they find some youth that had made a perfect score in school, or brought out the person that was the champ of the quiz team, and make them a roll model. The whole point is not that the org is God, the whole point is that it ain't ethically right for someone in leadership to go contrary to the current bylaws that the constituency holds and present someone that contradicts them as a roll model. ETHICS is what I am talking about, not whether the bylaws are right or not.

BTW,

I am protesting, and all my kids continue to have a real relationship with God.

1. I would guess that you are not raising your children under all the affirmation statements of the UPC. So I don't think your children can fairly represent what I have asked about.

And I also think it premature to count one's children safe, who aren't yet married and raising kids of their own. This is where we find out if they simply got along or they got a hold of God on their own.

NOTE/ I mean no offense by this statement. I am very concerned about my own and the paths they may yet decide. I only point out my belief that the true proof of the pudding is determined when the child raises their own children not when they are captive members of the household.

2. Laws and organizations change as people, thinking and time changes. For instances, the UPC has statements against people fighting in war; and yet our churches honor vetrans and give honor to those in the military. Thank God!

We don't cry foul over that.

3. There was a time when birth control was considered evil. Fortunately, it didn't get codified into the affirmation statement. If it did; the issue would haunt us today since the organization seems incapable of deleting what no longer makes sense.

4. I agree. I think the top Bible Quizers and those that are doing wonderful in their studies should have been honored and celebrated too. But that wouldn't carry the novelty of finding out that God can work through people in some pretty unlikely places.

5. So the bottom line is about keeping our kids committed to God as they walk over fools hill. Boring them to death with the same ole same ole may not work so effectively; especially in this age of the internet. IMO

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Newman

3. There was a time when birth control was considered evil. Fortunately, it didn't get codified into the affirmation statement. If it did; the issue would haunt us today since the organization seems incapable of deleting what no longer makes sense.

:

Oh for the good ole days!

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Oh for the good ole days!

!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Newman

!

Just jumping in where angels apparently fear to tread...

I just double checked with my kids and wife who were at NAYC - they said it was "fabulous." They all had a great time. They went early for the Bible Quizzing and yard work stuff and participated in everything that there was to do.

FWIW- despite Alicea's slander in calling me a "lib" - we're an "old line" Pentecostal family - except for the TV which is still new and under warranty. My kids all dress the "Penetcostal way" and I've never had to say anything to any of them- except the youngest, he went to bed in a suit after church one time... The kids are very opinionated about "standards" type of issues and tend to be more conservative than even I am. They saw nothing wrong with the NAYC overall.

They felt like the atmosphere ministered to their needs and were really excited about the whole thing. My wife added that if anyone was seated up front and trying to see up Dora's skirt then they probably need to sit in the "nosebleed seats." That, and she did say that knee-length skirts are not the best choices for platforms anyhoo (my wife is on a lot of platforms and would never wear anything knee-length).

I am wondering how much of the hu-bub is about those "other" pics of Dora from other venues- not NAYC. I know from bitter experience that "conservatives" will take a gnat and turn it into a camel so that they can choke on it and complain to the waiter. Happens everytime at the cafeteria.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I am wondering how much of the hu-bub is about those "other" pics of Dora from other venues- not NAYC. I know from bitter experience that "conservatives" will take a gnat and turn it into a camel so that they can choke on it and complain to the waiter. Happens everytime at the cafeteria.

I have not seen any pictures. However, I am always amazed by people who are not walking in someone elses shoes who think they know how that person should be dressing.

WHAT on earth do you think the kids look like that this girl goes to school with? Do you think that perhaps kids from New York might look different and even more wild then our normal run of the mill kids from the midwest? (I am talking about secular kids).

You bet they do! Do you think kids who are going to a school for perfoming arts aren't way out there for dress? You better believe it.

Now, do you think this young woman who is walking a fine line in an avenue most of us have never been called to; might just dress a wee bit different than your average Apostolic girl in the south?

Good grief! Yes!!! Let's not butcher our kids.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Newman

I have not seen any pictures. However, I am always flabergasted by people who are not walking in someone elses shoes who think they know how that person should be dressing.

WHAT on earth do you think the kids look like that this girl goes to school with? Do you think that perhaps kids from New York might look different and even more wild then our normal run of the mill kids from the midwest? (I am talking about secular kids).

You bet they do! Do you think kids who are going to a school for perfoming arts aren't way out there for dress? You better believe it.

Now, do you think this young woman who is walking a fine line in an avenue most of us have never been called to; might just might dress a wee bit different than your average Apostolic girl in the south?

Good grief! Yes!!! Let's not butcher our kids.

I will not battle with you, cause I don't like to loose.

But the whole point is not that the girl was immodestly dressed, though most cons feel she was. It was that she was set up as a roll model and her occupation contradicts what the org bylaws uphold. Since I am not UPC, I don't have a dog in the fight, but I have heard the voice of the conservative side. Now whether you or me agree or disagree with the governmental structure of the UPC, for an official to set up something that is contrary to that structure is to me very unethical, and shows little integrity on the part of said official.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Newman

I have not seen any pictures. However, I am always amazed by people who are not walking in someone elses shoes who think they know how that person should be dressing.

WHAT on earth do you think the kids look like that this girl goes to school with? Do you think that perhaps kids from New York might look different and even more wild then our normal run of the mill kids from the midwest? (I am talking about secular kids).

You bet they do! Do you think kids who are going to a school for perfoming arts aren't way out there for dress? You better believe it.

Now, do you think this young woman who is walking a fine line in an avenue most of us have never been called to; might just dress a wee bit different than your average Apostolic girl in the south?

Good grief! Yes!!! Let's not butcher our kids.

Matte, Are the pictures in question the same that were originally posted on ninetyandnine.com ,a well-respected Apostolic site?

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Newman

I have not seen any pictures. However, I am always amazed by people who are not walking in someone elses shoes who think they know how that person should be dressing.

WHAT on earth do you think the kids look like that this girl goes to school with? Do you think that perhaps kids from New York might look different and even more wild then our normal run of the mill kids from the midwest? (I am talking about secular kids).

You bet they do! Do you think kids who are going to a school for perfoming arts aren't way out there for dress? You better believe it.

Now, do you think this young woman who is walking a fine line in an avenue most of us have never been called to; might just dress a wee bit different than your average Apostolic girl in the south?

Good grief! Yes!!! Let's not butcher our kids.

Newman, I'm a certified "lib" on here and I will testify that she was dressed way inappropriately in those pictures (NOT the ones from the conference, the other ones). I don't really care what the girl wears or doesn't wear, but it's just inconsistent with what UPC teaches is modest. For heaven's sake, it's inconsistent with what I believe is modest!! They are sending confusing messages to their young girls.